By Andre Bagoo
January 13, 2013 – newsday.co.tt
RESIDENTS of the polling district of Belle Garden East/Roxborough/ Delaford, which PNM candidate Hilton Sandy hopes to win in the Tobago House of Assembly elections come January 21, appear to be split right down the middle over the question of whether his chances in the election have been hurt because of his controversial “Calcutta ship” remarks.
Sandy is due to speak today at a PNM rally at Roxborough. On Friday, he was called into a meeting with PNM Tobago Council leader Orville London, as part of a PNM strategy exercise. Coming out of the meeting, Sandy was unusually tight-lipped. London, however, has defended Sandy and said the candidate will still speak today at the rally, in the face of calls for Sandy to be withdrawn as a candidate. London has said Sandy’s chances remain good.
Some of the Tobagonians living in the district — which includes Argyle, Roxborough, Louis D’or and Delaford – are strongly of the view that Sandy’s chances have been hurt and that he will not gain the support of the electorate because of his remarks.
Equally, however, others seem to be of the view that Sandy’s campaign will not be affected and will win victory over the Tobago Organisation of the People’s Anslem Richards and the Platform for Truth’s Senya Marin.
“One person who is not supporting that kind of statement Sandy made is me,” said Yvonne Orr, 72, of Delaford. “It has racial overtones and that is not right. It is not right to encourage things like that.”
Yet, Johnson Gardner, 62, of Delaford is of the opposite view. “I don’t believe this will affect his chances,” he said. “Whenever you have an election people always say things and make all kinds of remarks.” Another woman, who did not want to give her name fearing political victimisation, said, “He will win. He is a good man and this will have no impact on his campaign at all.”
The remarks in question were these: “There is a ship at Calcutta waiting to sail to Tobago; they are waiting to get the results of this election. If you bring the wrong results, Calcutta ship is coming down for you. You must stop that ship. We must not allow that ship to sail and if you don’t want that ship to sail, what you have to do? Is vote the PNM!”
“His chances are slim,” said mas-maker Nadine James of Mas Masters at her Roxborough home as she worked on the band’s 2013 Carnival presentation Corals of the Caribbean. “He has really forgotten his place and it looks like his campaign has been hit.”
“They should have him out of the campaign,” said Louise Melvile, 78, proprietor of the Barbados Shop at Argyle. “I think after the election he should board a ship and go to Calcutta.”
But government worker Curtis Miller said, “I don’t think his campaign has been affected. Everybody makes all these comments. For example people called Jack Warner many things. That is how politics is.” Miller said Sandy has been a good representative.
“He is doing his work,” he said.
The polling district of Belle Garden East/Roxborough/Delaford, has an electorate of 3,611. It was previously known as the district of Roxborough/Delaford. In 2009, Sandy narrowly won the district by 74 votes. He got 1,105 votes to the TOP’s Lenin Toppin who got 1031.
38 thoughts on “District split over Sandy’s Calcutta statement”
Sandy’s statement has ignited many undecided Tobago voters to move towards the PNM.
His controversial statement is having the desired effect in Tobago. It could lead to a PNM victory. Fear and racial fearmongering work every time. The destruction of the reefs in Tobago seems to be less serious than the political pollution presently taking place all over this paradise.
Come on TMan you are too smart a person to believe this nonsense. As long as they have the means , Indo Trinis, and wider cousins from South Asia, Guyana, or the rest of the world ,are free to make peaceful, tranquil Tobago ,their home , anytime they wish ,without fear of any repercussions whatsoever.
If your UNC controlled PP regime ,lose ground in Tobago ,via said election, it would have nothing to do with some over the top , as you rightly claimed ” fearmongoing ,” utterance ,from a dEsperanto ,local politician. Thus me on this, as I have been doing my own ethnographic studies across the island ward long before you dreamt of doing what you are doing presently.
Here is the deal, for you politically naive/illiterate. None of the two dominant races , have won , or can win any future elections, unless they learn the art of compromise, and respect for the other.
Indo Trinis cannot expect in the run up to anybelection , to behave nice ,and kiss up , then once in power , pull out the ‘dis is our time,’mantra. They cannot por rjrmplo,engage on political purges, point fingers across the country at every ill ,as emanating from their Afrikan rival , and not expect a blow back.
Remember T-Man , your Father of de Nation in DR Eric Williams ,along with his Protégés of Manning, ANR Robinson, , and George Chambers, won 100’ out of the last 103 elections in T& T , and trust me again, when I say ,they did not practice such backward politics against our INdo Trini BRothers and sisters.
Here is another thought,that I can attest to as a fact via indept studies, and close obeservations . Many of the conflics across the globe ,that we choose to deem terrorist , can be eliminated if a few neo tribal leaders , could understand such simple fact , mi amigo.
Be it on traditional media, In Parliament, social media, backyards, churches, Mosques,Synagouges,and Temples,we often tend to humiliate other folks leaders, and heroes ,to our own peril. Having said all dat, let me add in ending :- To the people of Tobago ANR Robinson ,DR Rowley , and rambuncious Sandy ,are heroes,just like Basdeo, and ‘Her MAjestick Queen K ,’ is to folks of their community,si?
Now pay attention my friend, and let me educate you. When Sir Ellis Clark, choose George Chambers over Errol Mahabir , and Kamal, the Indo Trini folks disgusted about treatment of their heroes , retaliated , no?
In the aftermath of the 86, Robbie led NAR victory Chambers PNM,Uncle Basdeo, Ramnath, Sudama, Suraj, and others , not too happy with de two seat upstart ANR, thus they did their thing which was their right, and we know how dat ended ,huh?
Surprise, surprise , ANR as President ,got his revenge on BSdeo , when he used his executive powers ,to hand reign to Manning , after a tied election.
He got his revenge , but I am not certain of the people of Tobago did , since they are still holding de short end of de socio – economic- com. Political stick ,ehhh?
As I said , the folks of Tobago will make a decision that suites them best. They must likewise face the political consequences as well.
If they precive dat ‘better can’t be done , do they let the worst continue,’ or instead jump into a river , that they suspect is ladened with pharinahs, alligators, and similar dangerous creatures- when they can see with their two eyes ,the negative fallout to those unfortunate ,yet adventurous souls, who did so before?
It’s their call , and in your new homeland of Canada, and my world, we call that DEMOCRACY.
Let’s wish dem well, ehhhh?
Trinidad & TobAGO a very beautiful Island home for me as a native what has happened to the nation states in regards to racial division.People need to stop the fear monfering between races it only stokes the fire of more racialization and the outcomes may be worse than we are already seeing with the dominance of tribal politics within our beautiful sister Isles.
Sorry D Williams , but you and misguided others ,are barking up de wrong tree, when it comes to this contentious issue. As Billy Joel said in song , ” we didn’t start de fire!” So tell dem to ,leave us alone.
It’s sad but true, dat wheresoever they’ve settled- outside of European dominant countries of course- only one race of people ,have systematically engaged in ‘race baiting politics.’ Care to call names ,buddy? If so , I ‘ll whistle.
What is worst , is that you dare not even attempt to discuss it on social media, seeing that they ,and conniving minions , would try to label you a racist for so doing. Go figure!
In ending,tell dem also ,dat there is an old Afrocentric saying , adored across most of T&T ,which states:-‘you can’t play mad and fraud powder!’
Stay tune , and I would educate you as to what us social scientist refer to as ,’political blowbacks.’
Stand strong Tobao , as dis too shall end!
“… one from among thy brethren shalt thou set king over thee: thou mayest not set a stranger over thee, which is not thy brother” (Deuteronomy 17:15).
Sandy was basically right, scripturally. We are commanded to not set “strangers” over us.
His articulation of the principle was however clumsy. The biblical precept distinguishes people of the host nation from those who are “stranger”. Clearly, any host nation has a right to protect itself from the predation of strangers. Therefore, Tobago has a right in natural law to assess and act on any perceived threat of “takeover” by strangers, whether from Trinidad, Germany, or Calcutta.
The precept is reciprocal. That is, Germans in Germany, Indians in Calcutta, etc. likewise would have a right under natural law, to protect themselves from strangers. Indeed that right is there whether the strangers are, or perceived to be, predatory or otherwise.
There is also a balancing precept under natural law: “Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.” (Exodus 22:21).
One must therefore treat fairly with strangers who choose to come into and find space within one’s borders, whether temporarily, or more permanently.
But we make a mistake to think that treating fairly with strangers — the duty to not vex, let alone oppress, a stranger — is violated if one refuses to countenance a takeover by them. Certain conspicuous groups that find themselves strangers in many places, nevertheless scream “discrimination” if that natural right of the host society is asserted.
It is impolitic to make these distinctions in T&T, because one of the founding myths of T&T is: “here ev’ry creed and race find an equal place”.
Therefore, we are not supposed to countenance the idea that anyone in T&T is “stranger”. The reality however is that Indian culture, especially Hindu culture, is alien to the Caribbean, which fashioned a unique “creole” culture, over a period of about 200 years … long, long before Indian arrival.
The host has done well to neither vex nor oppress the late-comer stranger. But under biblical law, the creole host erred in setting up arrangements under which an un-assimilated alien could plot a takeover. Not only was the late-comer un-assimilated, they were implacably hostile to cultural assimilation.
Eric Williams was objectively accurate in his description of them as a “hostile and recalcitrant minority”. Arguably however it was a vexatious comment, probably made in frustration. The PNM has paid a price for it since.
Nevertheless, Eric was at least not hypocritical, and his vision of a non-racial but multi-racial state was genuine. It is why Indians have prospered in T&T under the PNM … to the point where, having worked assiduously at it, they have taken over all the major economic and political choke-points of the society, and are also hard at work seeking to transform the culture as well into an image closer to their ancestral liking.
Sandy is right to question it. He has natural law on his side. Trinidad may well be lost, but Tobago too?
Were it not for prophecy I would despair. The world is moving forward exactly as prophesied, regardless.
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Excellemt commentary Yoruba Israelite. I just wish I could have articulated same as well. Time to take that light you are in possession of , from under de bushel , so that the world can see same. This issue goes beyond T&T.
Let me add for de record, dat there are four human qualities that I find most disgusting/abhorrent . These are hypocrisy, non patriotic attitudes,ungrateful penchant,selfishness, and ethnocentrism.
Notice a similar pattern amongst that phony bunch/ Middle East imposters- led by their Euro, and Yankee lobbyist/ benefactors,will likewise ,choose to call any one a Racist , who dare to expose their all controlling ,selfish , discriminatory tendencies.
Educate us my friend as to which two groups benefited most during , and immidiately after, de end of dehumanizing , white Apathied system in South Afrika.
“Solidarity, is the key to true liberation of a people.” Znendrii Keep de faith!
Thank you Neal for that remark.
You are right in your allusion to South Africa, and Mandela’s formulation. What the ANC won by blood and bullet, they might well lose by being over-magnanimous in how they treat with bank and ballot.
While you have articulated your argument eloquently, it is neverthess, based on a flawed premise, i.e. that Trinidadians and Tobagonians of East Indian ancestry are somehow cultural outsiders in our twin island republic. Nothing could be further from the truth and betrays a cultural chauvinism that is rooted in false assumptions.
Going with your line of argument,then what of the most ancient inhabitants of T&T, the native tribes who inhabited our twin island republic long before the imposition of the Spanish and Anglo-Saxon cultures on our country? Granted, their numbers have long been decimated, but wouldn’t their descendants view all other groups that have arrived since as unwelcome and foreign elements?
As for Eric Williams’ infamous statement, I agree that the repercussions that his statement engendered are still being felt today by the East Indian group to which his statement was ostensibly directed; for me the jury is still out on that, to use a popular expression.
The East Indian community has earned the right to assert its cultural identity within Trinidad and Tobago and does not need to be apologetic about it. It is the Trinidadian of African descent that needs to rediscover his or her heritage and weave it into the broader Trinbagonian cultural paradigm. I have argued this point to the point of annoying repetitiveness on these boards.
If the premise were flawed, how could you celebrate Indian Arrival? How could you articulate and adhere to a policy of apan-jhat. You cannot practice apan-jhat without embracing the reality of what you call a flawed premise. The Sanatan Dharma Maha Sabha still practices and advocates apan jhat and cultural separation. Openly and without apology. Dr. Rowley was insulted and disrespected in Debe on the same allegedly flawed premise, and even for his wearing of a culturally Indian garment at Divali Nagar.
Please. I sometimes suffer fools, but never gladly, and especially not when they seek to play me for a fool.
In any case, you obviously don’t believe it is a flawed premise, because you go on to state:
You can’t have it both ways.
The simple fact is that the “East Indian” is a trans-planted stranger in the Caribbean, and Indo-dominated Government in T&T is engaged in hostile takeover — economic, political, cultural.
The Spanish did the same to the Caribs and Arawaks. They did with the sword and with pestilence what the East Indian is doing to the host culture they found on arrival with guile, cunning, and not a little hypocrisy. As you display here.
Be that as it may, we the Afro-Creole in these parts have none to blame but ourselves. We have disobeyed our God. Not in oppressing the stranger … because we did not … but in inviting him in even to the point of taking over the house we built and adding to our varied and sundry iniquities. That too violates God’s commandment, and we are paying the price:
“You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.” (Amos 3:2).
It is not by accident that the sons of Jacob — we the Afro-creole “Negro” in the West — seemingly will get away with nothing!
Nevertheless, our ultimate redemption is assured, and is now not too far in the future. For all the guile, cunning, and hypocrisy that has been deployed by the East Indian in these parts, their triumph will be short-lived. That is written.
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
“Please. I sometimes suffer fools, but never gladly, and especially not when they seek to play me for a fool.”
I was taking issue with your argument, not you personally and was not trying to play you for a fool. If I thought so, I would not even have taken the time to write a response to your argument. I respect your intellect and wanted to engage in a debate and express some of my differences of opinion over what you originally argued. Is that not still argued in this country.
As for the merits of my own argument, I can in fact have it both ways, Indian Trinidadians can stay true to their roots and yet be Trinidadian, there is no contradiction there; how racist ideologues such as Sat Maharaj decides to interpret this should not obscure this fact.
As one who has observed the confrontational tone of these boards, I have observed instances of cultural chauvinism on both sides. If that is what you construe as me playing for a fool, I apologize, that was not my intention.
Poor , poor triniamerican! We feel his pain,& should all shead a tear for him , as he believes ,he is being subjected to some social media attack- and what a sick joke! As your NBA Kobe Bryant ,told his cry baby teamate , in Spaniard Paul Gasol,”Put on your big boy pants!”
Ain’t it funny ,how folks like trinbagoamericana ,enjoys poking folks in their symbolic eyes- with their not too subtle ,ethnic chauvinism- but then act surprise , when someone with superior intellect , such as Yoruba Israelite ,can skillfully retaliate ,by bloodying their pugnatious noses, with de occasional sucker punch?
On a serious note however, tell me Triniamerindian-American,when pro racist,Hindustani ,head guru , Sat Mharaj , has the ear of your PM ,and can therefore influence national policies,left , right , and center, in ways that favors de tribe ,should that not be a matter of concern for us all, across T&T, aka Rainbow Nation?
On the subject of authentic culture , by you non patriots.A few years ago , while in Pakistan, I spent almost half a day running around it’s capital Islamabad, trying to get a roti, but each time someone tried to sell me what can only be petabread. Tell me exactly ,what are Indo Trini roots again, buddy? Last time I check there was soca brads, Ricky Jai, Kenny J,Dupatree,and in case I be remiss, let me not neglect elite Steelpan arranger,Jit Samaroo, and now son.
Give it a rest my friend ,by embracing your country of birth, with it’s hodgepodge ,cultural intermix, and quit grasping for some opaque ,purist , concoction , as practiced in de motherland. Just remember , dat you too would be laughed at/ chided , if you bow , and kiss de feet of another human being- especially if the land of your birth was T&T, eeeeh?
I luv dis land , and so should you Trinamerican.
Neal, because I am the bigger man, I am going to walk away from this one…
The “stranger” may of course stay true to his roots. That is not the issue.
The issue arises when the stranger seeks to supplant or displace the host. That has happened many times in history. The Spanish did it, murderously, to the Caribs and the Arawaks. But in doing it, they did not pretend to be “Carib tuh de bone!”.
That is what you cannot have both ways. You cannot, both, be “Trini tuh de bone”, and “Indi tuh de bone”.
No man can serve two masters. So either you must be Trini (with by all means an Indo flavour), or Indi (with of course a Trini accent).
If the former, yes indeed you may be Trini, finding space in the Creole tent alongside all the other flavours making up Creole Trinidad. That is the host. That is the great strength and saving grace of Trini culture. The sons of Jacob (the Afro-Creole “Negro”) deserve no small part of the credit for that ethos of live and let live.
But if the latter, i.e. Indo with a Trini flavour, and you seek all the rights of the host, then you are disloyal to the house that has given you space, and you are in fact seeking to destroy that house, and establish your own.
In T&T, that is the hostile program of Hindutva, as aggressively advocated by such as Sat Maharaj, and embraced by the Indo-dominated Government for the moment in power.
That program of Hindutva is rejected even in India, by those who subscribe to a secular state. In T&T it would again be rejected and for similar reasons. Therefore, it is disguised under deceitful rhetoric of “multi-culturalism”. In other words, you seek to have it “both ways”.
The son of Jacob, to whom that ball is bowled, lacking guile, are supposed to say, “well why not, let’s all live and let live”, “all o’ we is one family”, etc. Not reading the spin, he gets bowled out, and on the way back to the pavilion, all he can then do is warn the incoming batsman, “watch dat fella, he spinnin’ it both ways!”
Well in my younger days I was quite a useful batsman, especially against spin. I could read the spin in the air. I was never deceived by the action of the wrist. So whether it was googly, chinaman, doosra, or other, it made no difference. I was also a quite useful fullback in football, where the first rule was to keep your eye on the ball, lest you be deceived by the opposing player. These were lessons well learnt.
Unfortunately, our sons of Jacob in T&T and elsewhere have been deceived. Over and over again. It is what happens when you latch on to an ideology (apparent spin of the wrist) in preference to truth (actual spin in the air). This has been the sad lot of Mackandal Daaga and indeed every Afri-centrist who considers himself Afri-centrist first. No. We should all be truth-centrist first, and Afri-centrist only if that is where truth leads. They were long ago bowled out, and still don’t know it. “Indians and Africans Unite” sounds very good to a son of Jacob, but the meaning to one is different from the meaning to the other. That however is another, long, discussion, which I’ll spare the reader on this occasion.
I’ll merely sum up by quoting the following scripture which foretells how this game will end:
“20 Thy sons (of Jacob) have fainted, they lie at the head of all the streets, as a wild bull in a net (Cf. the T&T state of emergency of 2011): they are full of the fury of Yahweh (Cf. crime situation), the rebuke of thy God.
21 Therefore hear now this, thou afflicted, and drunken, but not with wine (but weed and crack):
22 Thus saith thy Lord Yahweh, and thy God that pleadeth the cause of his people, Behold, I have taken out of thine hand the cup of trembling, even the dregs of the cup of my fury; thou shalt no more drink it again:
23 But I will put it into the hand of them that afflict thee; which have said to thy soul, Bow down, that we may go over: and thou hast laid thy body as the ground, and as the street, to them that went over.” (Isaiah 51:20-23).
Mackandal Daaga and his ilk have certainly bowed down, and we all know who have used them to get over. If you think you are some amorphous “African”, you may be used that way. If you know you are a son of Jacob, there is no way.
As for the user and abuser, those who share space with the sons of Jacob do not know how blessed they are, and could be, and how cursed they can become. The choice is theirs. (Hint: they can’t have it both ways.) It has all been written.
Revelation 22:11. He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Very good reply and you have articulated your position well. All I would add is that the problem in T&T is that there has long been a cultural assymmetry between Trinidadians of African and Indian descent.
The East Indians has succeeded because they know who they are, and the Africans have been relegated to the nether regions of mediocrity because they try to embrace Trinidadianess without rooting it in their ethnic and cultural heritage. The African or Israelite (because that is also very possible) has to know his or history before moving forward.
My years abroad, despite accusations on this forum to contrary, have actually deepened my sense of patriotism and have allowed me to see the true reality of things, especially with regard to the manner in which the “white” power structure has successfully divided the sons of humanity, while it continues its unjust and oppressive reign and continue to wreak havoc on this earth.
But, I digress, back to the topic at hand…
Hilton Sandy’s comment has upset a hornet’s nest, but it’s one that needed upsetting. We in Trinidad and Tobago cannot continue to bury heads in the sand while one group secure in its history and heritage continues to reap thrive while the other, culturally disconnected, continues its rapid descent into a cultural abyss.
There cannot be any harmony until there is healing and a cultural appreciation of all things African within the African-Trinidadian community. In my case, I am a proud, East African semite by heritage, and I testify there is nothing like knowing, nothing. It has imbued my life with a renewed sense of purpose and I am able work more effectively, secure in the knowledge of my own origins.
I only wish the same for other culturally disenfranchised Trinbagonians of African descent.
This analysis is very wrong. At many levels.
First, the “success” of the East Indian depends on your definition of success. The sons of Jacob know somewhere in their bones, even if temporarily misguided by this or that man-made doctrine or “ism”, that man does not live by bread alone, rather by coming into alignment with and obedience to the Most High.
The East Indian does not have a similar moral compass and will do things for money, and the trappings of “success”, that a son of Jacob, even the most venal, would not do. That is a gross generalization I know, to which there are exceptions on both sides; I make it without malice or ill-will to anyone. Example: If one former PM has a bank account with a million pounds sterling in it, while others have hardly anything to show for all their years in power, that does not make the one successful, and the others not.
Second, there is nothing mediocre about the sons of Jacob. We have been and are being punished by the Most High for our disobedience. Part of that punishment is this: “The stranger that is within thee shall get up above thee very high; and thou shalt come down very low” (Deuteronomy 28:43).
As prophesied, so it has become. The purpose of the punishment has been served, and many of us are now awaking, as was intended, to a realization of who we are as sons of Jacob, and why we have suffered as we have; see Hosea 6:2, Isaiah 44:4.
But even in our unconscious state — having suffered the loss of our heritage as was prophesied; see Jeremiah 17:4 — there has always been the light of Yahweh’s glory on some of us. The most illustrious scholars of T&T have been sons of Jacob. Likewise our most illustrious sportsmen, athletes, musicians, and artists. There are many examples. I cite only one: the accomplishment of Pan and Steelband has been spread far and wide around the world by sons of Jacob, many of them unlettered … but creative geniuses all the same.
Part of Indo Hindutva takeover propaganda is to suggest to themselves and to their victims that they the Indo are the “most successful”, and conversely that their victim, the sons of Jacob, are somehow inferior and unworthy. Please do not join with the propagandists in that respect. When proper yardsticks are applied, with appropriate correction for blatant Indo nepotism and corruption, the opposite may be found to be the case. Anyway, let the unjust be unjust still.
Third, it is not that the sons of Jacob need to know our history to move forward. Move forward where, and to what? It is rather that the sons of Jacob need to awake. We are the ones who are to inherit the kingdom. It is our story that is central to how the world has evolved over the last 2,500 years. That story is what is laid out for all to see, read and study in the Book of Yahweh. So much so that everyone wants to be us, from the fake so-called Jews, to the would-be Gentile Christians. They all want to inherit our kingdom.
In any case, like it or not, the awakening is taking place as was prophesied, and right on time:
“Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of Yahweh is risen upon thee.
2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but Yahweh shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.
3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising” (Isaiah 60:1-3).
That awakening may not be fully evident yet to those with eyes that do not see. But the time is fast approaching when even the most materially-minded Gentiles (and “East Indians”) will see it. The Gentile women will see it before their men, with their feminine intuition that even they do not understand. It is already happening that they all want themselves a son of Jacob (to our disbenefit, by the way, but that’s another story for another discussion). That accounts for the increasing douglarization of the society. Be that as it may:
“Thus saith Yahweh of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew (i.e. son of Jacob), saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you” (Zechariah 8:23).
That is our destiny. There is no man-made doctrine or “centrism” that will take us there. In fact, the opposite is true. Every “centrism” is a trick of the Serpent to lead the sons of Jacob away from our God, and put us into a state of disobedience to our God and confusion. Those who succumb will join the Serpent in his ultimate end in the lake of fire. Those who overcome the Serpent with all the “centrisms” he has wrought to our disbenefit, will have/resume eternal life in the presence of Yahweh, together with our brethren the aNGels.
Africentrism is a snare and a delusion, calculated to deceive. That indeed is why the Africentrists have been given every encouragement with professorial chairs and university departments and such. Prof. Tony Martin, whose recent passing we mourn, didn’t realize that all that was in the form of a bribe. Truth-minded as he was, he went where he was not supposed to go under the implicit contract, and brought all manner of trouble on himself. It brought out his mettle however. Like Christ being tested by Satan, he said man does not live by bread alone, and stood firm on Truth. He covered himself in glory thereby, and is one example of a son of Jacob who is far from mediocre.
This raises a side point. One can be Africentric, without being Africentrist. And vice versa. I will leave the reader to ponder those distinctions. We the sons of Jacob may never be Africentrist, but must be well versed in Africentric thought, Africentric evidence and historiography, and Africentric value systems, the better to understand OurStory in the Book of Yahweh. Truth is never an “ism”, it is always and only an “is”.
In any case, I put it to you that the East Indian may not have lost his heritage, but his knowledge of who he is is only slightly better than that of most sons of Jacob. India is a subcontinent peopled by many different tribes. It is ironic that the original ancestral religion of India is Kushitic, i.e. of Kush — eldest son of Ham — from which we get Indus-Kush. In other words, it is “African”. To that was added “Aryan” invasion, and Greek invasion, and Muslim/Arab invasion, and Muslim/Moghul invasion. The caste system would have consigned many Indus-Kushites to the lowest castes. Some seem to have had their caste origins washed away by the Kala Pani, yielding a Maharaj where came originally a Mahar, for example. There may well be many Mahar’s masquerading as Brahmin in T&T. To what end? Scripture lets us know: “Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free”. Therefore, to the extent East Indians really don’t even know who they are, it is spurious to ascribe their “success” to such knowledge.
No. God is in charge, that’s all. You have served your purpose, and soon the sons of Jacob will have awakened, and moreover raised up.
Revelation 22:11. He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
I will have to clarify what I mean by success. By success, I mean the conventionally understood indicators of success, professional attainment, financial security, etc. The East Indian may or may not possess all of the characteristics you have attributed to them. However, I can only speak from experience.
Regardless of what one may think of their personal shortcomings, one thing that cannot be denied is their work ethic. They will “beat book”, to use a Trinidadian colloquialism. In my father’s generation, this was the case. He told me the majority of the scholarship winners in the island were of African descent, and he himself distinguished himself scholastically and professionally.
Most eastern cultures tend to value professional accomplishment and the East Indian is no different. The Chinese, the Japanese, the Koreans, these are examples of people who value knowledge. The African does too, and this is exemplified by the brilliant minds produced from the African continent.
However, somewhere, from the 1950’s to now, the whole edifice of success and stability began to fall apart. My contention is that because, the Afro-Trinidadian mores were built on a house of sand to begin with. They viewed life through the prism of Eurocentric, in our case, Anglo-Saxon cultural baggage. Thus, the black man in Trinidad and Tobago has always been a walking contradiction, in many cases, the “mimic man” of which Naipaul wrote of in his novel.
Hence, over time, as many young black men began to aspire to the dysfunctional and degenerative sub culture of gangsta rap and overall black American cultural and social angst, the decline continued and the rot began to set in. Soon, dancehall music became the Caribbean variant of hip hop culture, but the deleterious effects remained.
Also, please do not misunderstand me; I am not an Afrocentrist in the pejorative sense that many understand it; i.e. the chest thumping, but socially insecure person, who may don the African garb and practise the culture outwardly, but is yet hollow inside. What I am for is people getting their memory back, whether it is good or bad, because not everything is wholesome about many African cultures. However, I am adamant in my contention that remembering is important. I feel very strongly about this because of the difference it has made in my life. I have long thought myself to be from a West African tribe, when my actual roots are from the East of Africa and the Middle East, which of course begs the obvious question: who on earth did I make it to the Atlantic from there. This is something I am continuing to research.
I am not sure how many Trinbagonians are ethnic Israelites, although I know a Mizrahi Jewish rabbi with a medical background who is currently exploring this issue.
I apologize for my long post. I guess I have a lot to stay.
From one son of Abraham to another, I say to you, shalom.
Triniamerican you are such a delusion comedian, dat it ain,t even funny anymore. Here you are trying to link South Asians , with the more noble of East Asians, who subscribe to some semblance neo confucianism , irrespective of de intrusions of Euro imperialism.
Let me enquire from you , our confused ethnic brother.Please enlighten me Triniamerican , but do East Asian have a caste system,practice bride burning, indulge in repeated gang rapes , on weak defenseless women,adhere to a fatalistic cultural habit , so much so , dat they would succumb to suicides , at de drop of a hat, and worst , have an unhealty appitite for corruption? Sorry ,I think not , so give it a rest.
What you ,and similarly misguided creatures ,wish to do , is grasp at positive values ,that are common to us all, but ignore all de ugly aspects of ‘you alls,’cultural practices, since it fails to bolster your , distorted view points.
Yet people, there are still folks who cannot understand , why T&T , as presently constructed ,can never develop sustainably.
Dis ungrateful,ID DAda Amin Ugandan escapee , by way of corrupt ,race appeasing,Daniel Moi’s Kenya, think’s he can fool us – de more astute bloggers ,on dis here bloggersphere. Tell him , he lie,& we ain’t buying!
I luv dis land,and might tolerate foreigners such as Triniamerican, so long as he can learn de art of tolerance, respect for de other , of similar color like they are ,and more importantly- unlike fellow members of ‘Triumphalist Nation,’ – be less inclined to regugitate dis condescending, psyco babble , he and others ,were force fed , since they were weaned from mamas breast, eeeeh , Triniamerican? Phony!
Re the definition of success, ultimately there is only one: eternal life in the presence of Yahweh, since anything else leads to an end in the lake of fire.
Those who reach for the material things and glories of this world are warned against the latter end: “But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God” (Matthew 4:4). Word to the wise.
That said, I do not deny the relatively downtrodden condition of the sons of Jacob (“Negro”) wherever we find ourselves. The reason for this is that that is the punishment of our God; see Amos 3:2.
He has raised up various “beasts” under the four kingdoms of the Gentiles, to tear us apart. At the same time, he made us to be “discontinued from our heritage”; see Jeremiah 17:4. So yes we are a downtrodden people; we are fulfilling prophecy; see Deuteronomy 28:46.
We were put to sleep; see Hosea 6:2. Now we are being awakened; see Isaiah 60:1-3. All the while there have been favored sons to remind us of our promise and capability, most clearly in the fields of sport and music, where we are a dominant creative force, but elsewhere also. It is the mercy of our God. But for the most part we have been a downtrodden people, an “astonishment. a proverb, and byword”; see Deuteronomy 28:37.
Every Tom, Dick, and Harrilal think they know the answer to our problem as a people. Some write us off as naturally inferior. Some talk about dependency syndrome. Others look at kidnapped people made slaves, forced to clear virgin forest, build plantations, factories, ports, yet deride us as lazy, even while they themselves do no work except to collect rent and profits. Newcomers come from a far land, are paid in land and money, to do what the slaves did as unpaid, forced labor. Yet they too, deride the sons of Jacob for indolence and poverty, doing so while resting on the advantage in land and coin that properly should have gone to the sons of Jacob, whose enslavement made it possible. The son of Jacob is made to bow down, that they may go over; see Isaiah 51:23. Yet the son of Jacob is blamed, when not pitied as an inferior being unable to do better.
How wrong! Look, that is an endless and useless blame game, indulged in by the unlearned, and by people with poor minds, often blinded by bigotry, that cannot see past that which is material and tangible. Some of the worst offenders claim an ancient spiritual culture for a heritage. So convinced are they of their own superiority — moral, spiritual, material, intellectual — God has closed their hearts and minds. They have eyes that do not see, ears that do not hear. But they are a vehicle by which God’s Chosen may be punished; see Deuteronomy 28:43.
At the same time, they do not realize that they themselves are being tested, and will be judged. Like Nebuchadnezzar and Belshazzar, they are tools used to administer punishment to the sons of Jacob. Inevitably, they exalt themselves, get puffed up with hot air and vanity, then are brought down.
The writing is not yet on the wall, as it came for Belshazzar, who was tried and found wanting. But we are at the end of the 4th kingdom prophesied by Daniel, and the writing soon will be on the wall, although the signs are already evident for those who have eyes that see beyond the merely material and tangible. I have already quoted on this thread:
“22 Thus saith thy Lord Yahweh, and thy God that pleadeth the cause of his people (i.e. the sons of Jacob), Behold, I have taken out of thine hand the cup of trembling, even the dregs of the cup of my fury; thou shalt no more drink it again:
23 But I will put it into the hand of them that afflict thee; which have said to thy soul, Bow down, that we may go over: and thou hast laid thy body as the ground, and as the street, to them that went over” (Isaiah 51:22-23).
Enough of these facile but vain theories that explain nothing and achieve nothing except to reveal the ignorance, and sometimes the petty bigotry of those that propose them. The people of Asia especially are no example of success. That is not what I say:
“46 And thou Asia that art partaker of the hope of Babylon, and art the glory of her person: 47 Woe be vnto thee thou wretch, because thou hast made thy selfe like vnto her… (2 Esdras 15:46-47).
Asia is here described as being “partaker of the hope of Babylon”, of being “the glory of her person”. This is a reference to their material “success”, whether attributed to “hard work” or to allegedly “high IQ” (“art the glory of her person”). Either way, the son of Jacob with his eye opened will not be impressed. You should not be, either.
This is not a matter for the unlearned. This is a matter for the sons of Jacob, moreover for those whose eyes are opened, and who are awakened. It is our God-given task to be a nation of kings and priests, and we are to rule in the coming kingdom; see Revelation 5:10, also Exodus 19:5-6. Ultimately, we are the owners of the “knowledge franchise”. We are the ones to interpret God’s word to the Gentiles. I didn’t say it, God did.
Moreover, we are explicitly warned to disregard every Gentile ideology or idolatry:
“19 O Lord, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.
20 Shall a man make gods unto himself, and they are no gods?
21 Therefore, behold, I will this once cause them to know, I will cause them to know mine hand and my might; and they shall know that my name is Yahweh” (Jeremiah 16:19-21).
The ideologies, centrisms, idolatries and religions of the Gentiles are all vanity. Even their science-ism would be considered an idolatry. And their high technology is actually quite primitive compared to the technology available to our brethren the aNGels, who have what the Bible calls “chariots of fire” at their disposal … what we call UFO’s today … as one small example.
Yahweh’s word is simplicity itself but paradoxically it is closed to the Gentiles, essentially because, in rebellion, every artifice and delusion is deployed to escape its clear meaning. They have eyes to see, but don’t, and ears to hear, but they hearken not.
To see and hear, we must become again as children, i.e. simply submit to the word as it is, not as we might like it to be. We need to dispense with idols, idolatries, ideologies, and etc. of whatever stripe, and simply submit to Truth, as revealed in the word of Yahweh, given to the forefathers of the sons of Jacob on whom were conferred the power of prophecy. The story told at Daniel 2 is instructive. We sons of Jacob here in the latter day are being awakened to re-assume that same power of prophecy. Hear or forebear.
I remember now. I think we had an exchange before. And earlier on this thread you described yourself as an “East African Semite”. This is a nonsense of category. East Africa is a place, Shemite is a paternal seedline referring to the sons of Shem, a son of Noah. The one has nothing to do with the other.
The DNA analysis you have been provided, and on which you rely really cannot answer the question you are asking. If you are of the seed of Shem, you are not ipso facto of the seed of Abraham. And if you are of the seed of Abraham, you are not ipso facto of the seed of Isaac or Ishmael, Jacob or Esau. Abraham is “father of many nations”, and had many sons with Keturah, as well as with Sarah and Hagar.
Your paternal seedline identity may be established by spiritual means, but if your Rabbi is using DNA analysis, that is the surest sign that the spiritual means are not available to him; see Ezra 2:63.
As to the Israelite heritage of the “Negro” of the West, we know it from prophecy. DNA analysis is not necessary for this purpose. The fact is that the “Negro” fulfills all the prophesied curses that would befall true Israel, and uniquely fulfill Deuteronomy 28:68, in the form of the trans-Atlantic slave trade and ensuing captivity. There simply is no other candidate people. Yahweh made it so that the matter cannot even be questioned.
Certainly the fake Jews cannot make the claim, they do not even come close, all their supposed suffering notwithstanding.
In any case, DNA analysis would only really be useful if the right reference sample is used. To take samples from the fake Jews merely gives you circular and misleading results, or else all too amorphous categories like “East African Semite”.
Hindutva (Hindu cultural nationalism) is at the very least controversial in secular India. To get a sense of why, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uM85zVt6xCU for a heart-wrenching examination of India’s caste system and untouchability.
Here in T&T, Sat Maharaj and the Sanatan Dharma Maha Sabha accept praise for cultivating the practice of Hindutva; see http://guardian.co.tt/columnist/2013-01-17/rituals-form-art-religion. And the Indo-dominated Government embraces Sat Maharaj.
“Bow down that we may go over” sums it up.
I may not be the smartest man in the world, but I am not the dumbest either. You accuse me of not having an intellect, but presume to judge my character based on my online persona. Your tone is that of a belligerent adoloescent. I am actually embarrassed for you.
Methinks it is you who has the intellectual shortcoming…
With regards to what I have written here, I admit my original argument had holes in it and I was overly aggressive at how I stated my original argument. I am man enough to admit when I am wrong (are you?).
Okay, back to adult conversations.
I am an Israelite. It has been proven by a Mizrahi rabbi with a background in medicine. You are actually not demeaning me, you are attacking his professionalism.
However, since this discussion has taken a scientific turn, here is the site that I used:
My DNA profile had matches to all Jewish and Arabic populations in the world. A medical doctor with a background in genetics confirmed that for me. As before, I am going to assert again, respectfully of course, that I am going to defer to his judgement. I have the highest respect for his knowledge and professionalism and will not insult him by questioning him.
I am not sure how I feel about the Deuteronomy 28 thesis, since the bible to me is not a reliable source. It has been translated numerous times and I do not think it proves anything. I respect your intellect and you argue this position well, but I just cannot accept the fundamental basis on which you determine Israelite ancestry. This is where we will just have to agree to disagree.
In the interest of further disclosure, I will send you a link to the Kohan that I study under:
On the left hand side of the page, you will see the link of the DNA testing program that he endorses. My results were actually very similar to his, and he has always known his heritage, and took the test himself.
He is also a naturopathic physician. Here is the link to his website here:
I have investigated him thoroughly and had my DNA results interpreted by another medical doctor, as I received a second opinion.
So again, we will just have to agree to disagree.
To be Israelite is neither a necessary nor sufficient condition of salvation.
“And it shall come to pass, that ye shall divide it by lot for an inheritance unto you, and to the strangers that sojourn among you, which shall beget children among you: and they shall be unto you as born in the country among the children of Israel; they shall have inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel” (Ezekiel 47:22).
By contrast, truth is necessary and sufficient. To seek Truth is to seek God, and to find Truth is to find God. Conversely, those who “loveth and maketh a lie” will not enjoy life eternal in the presence of Yahweh; see Revelation 22:15.
Therefore, one should leave aside all anxiety about whether they are, or are not, Israelite. The matter is important to the extent that if one is Israelite, then one is perforce subject to the Law of Covenant, like it or not. If one is not Israelite, one may nevertheless join themselves to it; see Isaiah 56:6-7.
My point about DNA analysis based on population genetic analysis is simple science. It is that it cannot allow you to make the distinctions necessary to form the conclusion you would like to make.
It is always bad science to let the desired conclusion influence the objective inference that the data and methodology permit … as every schoolboy knows, or should.
Science requires that one submit always humbly before fact. Salvation requires the same.
The credibility or otherwise of your Kohan is neither here or there. It neither adds to nor subtracts from what the science may allow you, reliably, to conclude.
Scripture, on the other hand, gives us a reliable prophetic “DNA test”. Yahweh says the curses upon true Israel would be upon us for a “sign” and for a “wonder”; see Deuteronomy 28:46.
It is interesting that Gentile science-ist brainwashing has been so thorough, that you set more store by it, even stretching it to reach a desired conclusion, rather than apply the test of prophecy given us by the Creator.
May Yahweh’s blessings be upon you.
“… the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit” (Jeremiah 16:19).
“To be Israelite is neither a necessary nor sufficient condition of salvation.”
I have never believed that by simply being Israelite I will be favoured in the eyes of the Creator. I would be foolish to think so when so many Israelites in the past were cut off for failing to follow the laws of Yahweh.
All I have done here is to acknowledge my heritage. I still have a lot of work to do in terms to going from my current gentile state to a Jewish one.
You know folks, one of the best ways you can tell an authentic Trini, as opposed to an imposter? Just test their ability to decipher humor , from personal attacks.
Tell me Triniamerindian, what else must I choose to judge your character , than presently de words that comes out of your mouth – in dis case , online mouth?
Not certain if Dr Phil can help , but almost certain, Uncle Segmund Freud , would have had a field day with you on his couch.
You seem to have this obsession , on being a man , and a bigger one , that is? Care to explain why? Let me guessed , you were bullied by de boys in school, since you were the last of sixteen kids , and being the only boy, could not eat until all your sisters did.
Ahhh, just remember de days , when politicians would get on a platform , and throw a piccong , with no one offended , as the point get through. Now even dis Triniamerindians guy, is all up tight , because you dared to question his lofty intellects,instead of him ,attempting to disprove me with similar wit, fact etc.
Yeah Triniamerindian ,to quote you,” back to adult conversation ,” a la ,” I am an Israelite,” and ‘Our conversation is now more scientific, so here is de on line web site , I get all my information to prove such.’
As we say in local parlance folks, ‘dis is getting from bad to worst.’
Ohhh AfroBuddahSunGod,that reside in our hearts, thanks for informing us -who cares to listen -about the folly of believing anything we have not tested ourselves ,and prove it to be true.
Hey Triniamarindian,here are two quotes ,that I as an ‘Agnostic Buddhist,’subscribe to , and maybe you might likewise,be able to deduce something meaningful- sub par intellect or not.Just kidding , mi amigo!
1. “In the sky, there is no distinction of east and west; people create distinctions out of their own minds and then believe them to be true. ”
2.”Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it.
Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumoured by many.
Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books.
Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.
Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations.But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason, and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.” Buddah
Buddhism is a personal practice of a way of life. It is yours and only yours. No one else can judge or tell you how to act. You alone are responsible.
Ain’t it fun , when folks globally, but particularly in T&T , aka Rainbow Nation, get caught up in religious,and ideological dogma, or some silly , opaque belief , somehow disguised as culture , when indeed ,as is de cases in T&T , it might simply be de rumblings of some aged family member ,still nostalgic about some alleged noble paste , that never really exist?
We wish dem well, you too TriniAmerindian! Just kidding TriniAmerican!
Well Neal, in Trini parlance, “what ah go tell yuh?” If it has been proven to me I am an Israelite and I did investigate the matter further and got a second opinion from a another medical doctor (don’t make assumptions about someone you don’t know) who saw the genetic signature in my DNA results.So make of that what you will..
Now a final thought on the topic at hand, before this blog veers even more off course…
What I have observed during the sorry turn that this discourse has taken is that once I pen thoughts that do not fit the tiresome and unproductive “us versus them” mould, I am derided as a traitor to my tribe and am summarily excoriated and raked over the coals. My time abroad has actually reinforced my belief that the wicked British colonials, who executed to flawless perfection, their “divide and rule” strategy of pitting one group of non-white people against another group of non-white people, have really done quite a number on the hapless victims of their divisive campaign. The problem is that the game is rigged because one group of people have their cultural identity more or less intact, while the other is teeming with so many contradictions, that the rot is really and truly setting in. It actually frustrates me to no end, that this fact is apparent to me, an individual of average intelligence, and not evident to some of the more perceptive and intelligent people on these blogs. Hopefully, this sample of posts is not representative of the broader Trinbagonian population. I can only hope and pray that this is not the case. As I have said, there is nothing like knowing. I have also realized that from working deep within the belly of a ravenous beast from which I will be escaping soon (I do not desire to be apart of the Zionist-colluding American corporation which is an affront to true Israelites), everywhere), the trifles of some transplanted slave descendants and misguided Indentured descendants of only useful to the true power brokers as long as they can maintain and consolidate their grip on power. Formalities such as politics and the people (read “cattle”) are of little consequence to them.
I say all that to say this: Sandy’s remarks, while incendiary and divisive has at least presented an opportunity for an honest conversation about the state of race relations in our harmonious twin-island republic (yes, that is laced with more than a pinch of sarcasm). I have my ears to the ground in T&T and what I am hearing is not pretty and bodes ominiously for the future progress of our twin-island republic, a mere pawn on the chessboard of the machinations of global players, who, according to David Rudder, “don’t about islands no more.” In fact, they never really have.
So this is what informs my comments on this forum. Living in the big, bad US Corporation has really driven home to me that our divided house will be an unmitigated disaster for the future of our republic. However, to move forward, the kinky-haired folks must rediscover their roots and stop this dance with their Anglo-Saxon traditions and the latent Africanisms which they well and truly do not understand. Psychologically, it is not healthy. As one who has been freed, I can attest to that. I guess I should not be repeating this ad nauseum, but my youthful stubborness keeps getting in the way. Perhaps with age, I will keep my lips sealed and just watch my kinky-haired brethen slip further and further into non-significance, what with STDS, anti-social behaviour an such.
But hey, let’s just blame the Indians and other races for our problems ent?
Oh AfroBuddahSunGod , who resides in our hearts , grant be patience to grapple with what a few cynics may describe as ,’ simplistic ,self pitying dribble ,’of TriniAmerindian, but which I won’t- since I think firstly, he has a right to his opinions, and more mportantly ,we need all hands on deck , if this authentic revolution is to become a reality.
In de words of the wisest woman dat ever lived in my wonderful Tobago Grandmaom, let me however , “try to pick sense from nonsense,” here, TriniAmerindian, and correct me if I still ain’t get where you are coming from.
Here I go:- 1. All Indians across the globe ,but especially in T&T , are great, highly motivated,successful, industrious folks , who though exposed to Anglo Saxons divide and rule forays , were able to escape unscaved, in part , due to their superior culture.
2. Afrikans in contrast, are hopeless,self hating losers,as well as envious ,cry babies, mental degenerates, and criminal minded low lifes, destined to go no where soon, since they have abandoned their roots, and instead , adopted the evil white man’s characteristics.
3. You have a love /hate relationship with ‘Pax Americana,’and plan to escape it soon.
4. Thanks to Tobago Sandy, race is now a topic for discussion in Trinidad and Tobago, and you think such is a welcome development.
5.Through deligence investigations,you were able to conclusively prove ,that you are Isrealite, but want’s no part of evil Zionism, that is in the words of respected Christian humanist Jimmy Carter , is presently practicing modern day Apathied on desperate Arab Palistinians.
5. From today henceforth , your lips are seal, as you choose to watch from the sidelines , while Afrikan folks,continue to blame all the rest of the world’s races,for their problems , while still indulging in many despicable social behaviors, that is destined to keep dem in de bottomless abyss of despair .
Excellent, and what can I say Triniamerican, but ……’I wish you well!’
Ahhhhhh ,it’s such a beautiful life, and how great it is to celebrate another’ born day.’
Long live de wonderful people of The Republic of Trinidad & Tobago-just maybe ,the greatest country , with de most triving democracy in de world- even with it few flaws-which I prefer to refer to as challenges,yes?
Luv Humanity people!
“Oh AfroBuddahSunGod , who resides in our hearts , grant be patience to grapple with what a few cynics may describe as ,’ simplistic ,self pitying dribble ,’of TriniAmerindian, but which I won’t- since I think firstly, he has a right to his opinions, and more mportantly ,we need all hands on deck , if this authentic revolution is to become a reality.”
Believe it or not Neal, we are on the same side. I am also working for the betterment of our country and hmanity as a whole. If you really wanted to find out where I am coming from, you would asked in a more respectful tone; but I suspect that you do not….
But anyway, go ahead and deride and use condescending language all you want and then disingenuously attempt to pass it off as good ole Trini picong, of which I am very much aware…
There is much work to be done, and frankly, I should not be wasting any more time commenting on an internet blog. There is nothing more to be accomplished here and I will take my leave. Prior to this exchange, I had gone almost the most part of a year without commenting on these blogs due to the sterile and oft-repeated arguments and accusations that I see here.
I should not have come back. It was a mistake..
With that said, good luck with your work.
Boooo, hoooooo , howl, scream, bahhhh,pull my hair , stamp my feet in disgust,ache , ahhhh!!! How sad it is , dat de illustrious ,Triniamerican, is once more ,about ‘to ungrace us with his none presence’-if such an expression can be made- and how traumatize we are , across dis here TrinCenter blogosphere , folks?
You know TriniAmerican ,I had promised myself ,that I’ll be a bit more tolerant with the likes of you -especially on my birthday today-but like a petulant , spoiled,overindulged brat,you continue to test my patience , as my loving , Tobago Grandmom, would often say to me – a seemingly ,miserable (but more attention seeking) kid back in de day.
Here he is ever so frustrated , that he cannot get everyone to jump to his dance beat, and so instead of doing some introspection , as to why, he instead – just like fellow members of Triumphalist nation- put blame on others. In dis case for his lack of cyber jousting skills.
See de trend here folks? We lost 12 election in a row, then it must be electoral malfesience by an over stack Afrocentrist BOard headed by of all people former CJ HayatAlli, political gerrymandering by ERic Williams , with his housing schemes invasions of we community, etc?
Now when we win, it’s because of our astuteness- not that we were able to successfully sell a solid , coherent , all inclusive message ,that appealed to cross racial / regional voters , always disgusted with the status quo, but I’ll prepared to lend their support to a Trade Union party.
We loose a THA election then it must be …..,well folks you get de message.
Here is a guy , with an obvious phony , yet transparent sobriquet, who from the day he entered the grand social media stage , followed the lead of others , and constantly lambaste Afrikan folks , while seeing no flaws in his own tribe.
His and others , conception of working for the betterment of their society, and humanity as a whole , is to praise every European who walk on planet earth , denounce every Afrikan alive ,or dead,irrespective of the good done , r achievements obtained ,feed like hungry , suckling piglets , from the political/ economic breast, of Mama Trinidad (while crying about tribal social neglects) but chastise others , who demand some semblance of socio – economic justice.
They won’t hesitate to denounce their country of birth, when it suits them , but once in de drivers seat , conveniently think it is de greatest.
They idly boast about their culture, as if hey alone have a monopoly on such, then when untainted others , adhere to de noble and not so noble tenets of theirs , well….. Well, you know how they react- Uncle Sandy , if he knows what’s good for him , he might as well , go back to planting peas in Tobago ,like Bassman Shadow ,as he would become de living symbol of all that evil in TRinidad and Tobago, as appeasement head gurus ,used this as a rallying cry to show case racism of rivals. Speaking of which- Good job UNcle JAck in Chagurnas. And on de crime front. dem criminals are getting th message – loud and clear- cease your troubling ways, since Tethron Soldiers are coming, but only after de investigation to figure out who murdered a young Afrikan soldier on duty. Oh sorry, misplace his Asthma inhaler canister.
Listen my young ,naive friend , here is an advice to you that is worth taking. Leave grown folks business alone, as you are obviously illequipt to handle this.
Leave religious , political , and similar socially deep discussions to folks with a bit more educational exposure, and social media savyness.
When you come on this forum, simply ask questions, then in normal cyber fashion , shake your head yes ,
or no, as de more astute amongst us , will help.
Let me guess ,after passing your GED at age 25, five years ago, you are what ,10 credits into the CUNY Kings-borough community college course, with a GPA of 1.3?
You are correct, TriniAmerindian, there is mucho homework (on your part)to be done, so either grow up , and learn to have a discussion, without taking every utterance,so personal, and instead ,make meaningful contributions , as oppose to regugitating old school ,unverifiable nonsense , overheard from often ,drunken , grand pappy,and we will respond in kind.
‘Good luck with my work!!’ De audacy of this kid! Is he certain it is I ,who need de luck? ‘Condescending language,’and does this kid even know de meaning of the words, when he is de epitome of condescension?
So you have an online addiction,and it’s Trini center. Yepeee! Join de line!
It’s a beautiful day , ain’t it folks!
Wish you well mi joven amigo!On de same side huh? Proof of de pudding is ….. Care to finish dis sentence TriniAmerindian?
Your crass response indicates your lack of class. You launch into a spate of ad hominens, which is a poor debating tactic, and write your responses in very confusing language (replete with numerous spelling and grammatical errors) and yet you have the termerity to accuse me of being sub-par academically? For your information, I have done okay academically, better than a 1.5 GPA.
Come on Neal, really, come better than that!
The question is how do you know you are Israelite. I understand clearly that you believe that, and you might well be right. But knowledge is one thing, mere belief is another.
I continue to maintain, without any fear of valid rebuttal, that DNA analysis based on population analysis, cannot tell you that you are Israelite. That methodology simply does not possess the discriminatory power that is required. That is why the conclusions are stated in such broad terms — “East African Semite”, or “a match for ‘Jewish’ and ‘Arab’ groups”.
By contrast, the prophecy “DNA test” may allow a reliable inference. The logic supporting this are the same as that supporting fingerprint matching and DNA matching.
You are looking for features or markers that match, between the reference sample and the target sample. Statistically, five matches can happen accidentally by a 1 in 32 chance, ten matches by a 1 in 1,024 chance, 20 by about 1 in a million chance etc. Beyond a certain point, a chance-matching is rejected as a hypothesis, and the contrary hypothesis is accepted that there is a causative link, accounting for the large number of matching features or markers.
In the case of prophecy “DNA” analysis, you are looking for a match to a number of prophesied signs. Beyond a certain number, the inference is reliable. In any case, the prophetic signs are such that candidates may be ruled out, as well as ruled in. Hence, if all other candidates are ruled out by certain prophetic signs, the inference is reliable at a certainty level of 100%. This is never possible for DNA or fingerprint analysis.
For example, Deuteronomy 28:68 is powerful in the sense that all other people but the “Negro” who suffered the trans-Atlantic slave trade are ruled out. Only the “Negro” is ruled in. Therefore the prophetic DNA test is 100% reliable.
In addition, Yahweh set it up such that there are numerous other prophecies for which the “Negro” is a match, though various other people also match specific ones. For example: scattered to the four corners; enslaved, specifically via slave ship, specifically involving chattel slavery, including king and commoner, priest and prophet; 400 years of captivity; loss of heritage, including loss of ancestral name, loss of language, loss of culture; cursed in basket and store; cursed in city; cursed in field; sow for another to reap; stranger to rise high above, stranger to come from far country speaking another tongue; astonishment and proverb and byword, i.e. called by non-complementary names; would serve many gods, even wood and stone; plant for another to reap; betroth a wife for another to lie with her; become always the tail, never the head; always the borrower, never the lender; halt upon the thigh (i.e. the hop and drop swagger); renowned for music (sing us a song of Zion); renowned for dance; strong, renowned for athletic prowess; black skin and woolly hair like Mizraim (Egypt) and Kush (Ethiopia); a people without guile; would be scattered “beyond the rivers of Ethiopia”; etc.
This is indeed a small sampling of the “signs” for which the “Negro” are a match. Deuteronomy 28 gives a listing of curses in verses 15-68, i.e. above 40 in number. In statistical terms, the chance of a random fit would be less than 1 in a trillion. The “Negro” matches all, plus many others found elsewhere in the Book, either as prophetic signs, or as descriptive characteristics.
Therefore, using the same statistical logic as applies in DNA analysis and fingerprint analysis, the application of prophetic signs (markers) leads to conclusions of even greater reliability and statistical power than commonly accepted in these areas.
Moreover, as already stated, there is at least one prophetic sign that simply excludes all other possible candidates.
I am dwelling on all this to help disabuse all of the idea that “scientific” DNA analysis is somehow more reliable than the signs — prophetic and descriptive — that Yahweh put into Our Story, precisely for these end-times when we would be awakened back into full consciousness of our position as Yahweh’s Chosen.
Do not discount the Book of Yahweh. Yes it has been tampered with, as indeed was prophesied; see Daniel 7:25. But Yahweh set it up to be tamper-resistant, and it is; see Daniel 12:4. Indeed, working through the manifest contradictions in the Book of Yahweh is necessary to the purpose of coming to an understanding of the Word of Yahweh. Come to it in a spirit of humility, and the Holy Spirit will guide you in all truth; see John 16:13.
The first requirement for those who seek truth, is to distinguish between knowledge, and belief. We may of course always agree to disagree. But fact is fact and logic is logic. It is better to work through disagreement than to run away from it. And the greatest learning opportunities you find in reading the Book of Yahweh lie in working through the contradictions.
Yahweh’s blessings be upon you.
Fair enough Yoruba Israelite. I still believe that DNA proves my ancestry because the Mizrahi Kohan I have studied under has also supported DNA and has his medical training to endorse it.
However, I do not desire to belabour this point any longer. We will just have to beg to differ on this point.
As for the article, I have already stated my main arguments and see no need to rehash them here. Although our beliefs are different, I believe that we can work together to heal the culturally programmed masses in Trinidad and Tobago and help everyone to worship the Divine according to their own understanding and cultural background.
If it was not already clear in the beginning, I offer my sincerest apologies for any hostility and intemperance that may have seemed apparent from initial posts. I will have to learn to moderate my tone in the future.
What do you know folks , our TriniAmerindian fellow , have ‘ a lil bit oh bite in him ,’huh? Here he is ,dismissing my views, while conducting what he claim to be ” a debate ,” as he chastise me , in terms of my penchant for bac spelling ,and grammatical errors.Luv it, and yes , a fair point, mi amigo.
Promise to be a bit my particular on how I desecrate Mama EnglAnd’s Inglish.
In de interim , I, & others ,will continue to read your next 99 post, to see how much success ,you are achieving , as far as trying to convince us skeptics ,about your Jewish- or rather ,Israelite heritage.
Now remember TriniAmerican, if by chance ,Uncle Youraba Isrealite , unearth some cojent facts ,which disprove your DNA theory, and therefore it turn’s out ,dat you are just some disgruntled East Afrikan transplant ,from Kampala , whose one time ,tea planting papa , fled -with only his clothes on his back -from an Afrikan nutcase ,political bozo ,called ID DAda Amin,then many would be hard press to believe dat you are not ,just another clueless,fast talking ,Yankee wannabe,’ academic pigmy ,’with a GPA of less than 1.5.
I wish you well, mi Amigo!
Ain’t life great folks? Well ……, anytime we can put simple minded, intellectual upstarts in their place , is a good one, Si?Not you TriniAmerindian.
Do you really believe I am hung up on whether anyone on this forum believes whether I am Israelite or not? If you do, well let me dissuade you of that notion. I make the point about my heritage to illustrate the importance of Trinbagonians of African descent discovering their ancestry. Whether or not they choose to believe me or not is really not my concern in the final analysis. That does not change what I am.
As for your characterization of me, all it does is prove what I was saying earlier about trying to avoid being placed in some sort of “us versus them” paradigm. Contary to what you believe, I care deeply about Afrikan folks in good ole’ Trinbago; I am just not going to bury my head in the sand and pretend that everything is fine and dandy while the evidence of social dysfunction is plain for all to see.
As for the tiresome and pointless back and forth stalemate that has been present between representatives of two to T&T’s main tribes probably since the inception of this board, well I can bet you a million dollars, that if the record is not changed, then ten years down the line, the tune will be same, with you probably browbeating and berating some other “upstart” eh?
Look, your rantings have proven that you know nothing about me or my true motivations even though I have made it very clear. In the interest of clarity, I am a concerned black man who just wants the best for his people. At the same time, I want there to be true unity with people of East Indian descent, since anything less is tantamount to disaster. I am sure it has not escaped you that my conversation with Yoruba Israelite, after a rather tense beginning, has actually become quite cordial and colleagial, although we differ on some points. I hate to mention his name in our verbal fracas, but I only do so by way of contrast to our more acrimonious exchange.
As for me being the epitome of condescension, well Neal, you have to give respect to get it. Nothing that you have written has made me inclined to afford you any inkling of respect, because you clearly give me none.
Here’s a solution: have nothing to say to me and I will have nothing to say to you. This will be best for the peace of these boards, should I decide to return (the jury is still out on that one). You clearly hold a low opinion of me, and I have to say the feeling is mutual. So for the sake of a negative peace, why don’t we just avoid each other and there will be ill feeling.
A wise man once said , “Don’t Take Anything Personally. Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream.When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won’t be the victim of needless suffering.”
You know ,part of my duty as a fervent practicioner of ‘Agnostic Buddhism ,’is to aid folks ,to end their sufferings, in all it’s manifestations- TriniAmerindian, being an obvious case in point, and oh AfroBuddahSunGod, who resides in our hearts , and not de sky-some some erroneously believes-give me the patience, if it’s really worth de effort.
Can it get any worst folks of Trinicenter nation? Should I simply applaud de fact that Cuz TriniAmerindain , chooses to place his tail between his legs, like a ‘San Souci Zandolee,’ by running to de hill,as opposed to indulging in a ‘lil bit oh , win / win ,cyber jousting,’while making his points?
That’s it , maybe it’s time to take off dem symbolic gloves of mine, and break down what I am about ,as far as ‘end game strategy ,’on dis here information highway , since the likes of a Triniamerindian , still ain’t get it , high intellect as he claimed to be.
Let me make something absolutely clear Triniamerindian ,when it comes to my cyber Machinations interplays ,with fellow bloggers. I do not care about the background of any individual that presently speaks , halt speaking, is referred to reverentially , or in contempt , whether they came into being 2000 years ago, is still alive , or yet to be born – since their incarnation cycle ain’t arrived as yet.
Your race , ethnicity, high end educational credentials , globally lauded achievements , national stature, political affiliations, gender , class , place of origin , place you or any other reside presently , and counting, is inconsequential as far as I am concern.
There is only one reason, I will take anyone seriously , or accord them the respect they deserve, and here it is. Do they love their country of birth , respect the rights , and history, of all the people of Trinidad and Tobago- and so wish , where applicable , to see positive changes for them , and essentially see every Individual advance to his or her full potential? Can’t help , if simply luv me some patriots!
I similarly despise hypocritical revisionists , ungratefulness, and selectively outrage , neo tribal – pro criminal apologists, as I believe no society can advance sustainably ,with such around.
I am however ,well aware , that some patience is necessary , on many occasions , since we all are not at the same level of thinking , as individually ,we bring different skills sets, and experiences to the table.
You are correct, I ain’t know you from jack rabbit, but neither do I know T-Man , Loyal Trini , Mamboo, and company , and yet I likewise ,have the same spirited discourse with them , sometimes very serious, other times humorous ,occasionally contentions , but through it all,’ I ain’t luv dem brothers , or maybe sister citizens’ ,any less. Of this I can assure you.
Trinidad and Tobago upliftment is the fundamental goal first. If we can thus become the small shining light in the region , that can then be a beacon of hope ,for others to follow , then that’s certainly a beautiful thing, ain’t it my learned friend?
Promise me you would therefore ,quit acting like that petulent kid , who lost his or her favorite toys , and get on with the business of trying to make a difference to the unenlightened, yes?
Be yourself, laugh , have a ‘lil cybernetic fun,’ and educate us , by bringing something tangible to de table,hmmm?
It just might be Oliver Goldsmith ,who once said, “No one but a fool would measure their satisfaction by what the world thinks of it.” I am almost certain that brother TriniAmerican ain’t no fool, ain’t dat right?
Best wishes my brother. If you still feel the way you do , after my attempt at respectable civility, well….Otra VEZ, Y , sorry, and it was nice communicating.
Ahhhhhh, and what a good life this is in my T&T , so what it is WASA fet tonight, even if half the country suffers from irregular water supply?
Well, ‘a lil distraction ain’t half bad.’ Maybe my first Panorama in 2 decades instead at de QPS? Hey TMan , I know you might be saving your full energies for Caribana,instead.In de interim ,be careful with dem Tobago gals , buddy. Think I might look to decadent Rio , for my dose of guilty pleasures. ‘Mucho gusto , obrigado!’
Luv Humanity folks!
Thank you for clarifying the intention behind your posts; however, I suspect that there is more than a modicum of genuine feeling in much of what you have written thus far since there is always an element of truth in any type of humour. Be that as it may, I am going to attempt to articulate my background and position more clearly.
Firstly, I am a patriot. I am a proud Trinidadian. I grew up in La Romaine and St. Joseph Village, and am a proud southerner, in the Trinidadian sense. My father, a proud inhabitant of San Fernando, has always mocked people in Port-of-Spain for believing that Trinidad ends at Chaguanas. Although I live abroad at the moment, I make regular trips back to Trinidad and am planning on purchasing property there soon.
As for Sandy’s remarks, I do believe that they were very unfortunate in that they have triggered a lot of ill feeling and rancour amongst this nation’s two major races. I do not think that there is any room for that in the public domain. I understand that there have been similar incendiary comments made from government officials, but I believe that two wrongs do not make a right.
With that said, Sandy’s remarks represent an opportunity for an examination of the state of race relations in Trinidad and Tobago. I have remarked before that the public domain, i.e. all forms of media, the citizen in the street and the government chambers, have been mired in an interminable racial stalemate, where public figures, and private citizens from both of T&T’s main racial groups have cast aspersions on the political, economic and social motivations of the other groups. These Trinicenter blogs are an excellent case in point. Over the past three years or so, I have observed the same unrelenting pattern of discourse, where bloggers impute the most negative characteristics to the East Indian and African races. You request a meaningful contribution from me, well on this score, my meaningful contribution is that this pattern of conversation must cease immediately and we all have to begin truly listening to the other.
With that said, there is still much to be said about the lack of cultural identity present among Trinidadians of African descent.I cannot speak for Tobagonians as much, but I can speak for African-Trinidadians. This cannot continue much longer if racial harmony is to become a reality and not a mere abstract desire. As things stand now, many from the East Indian community have held on to their traditions and gone from strength to strength as a result; the same cannot be said for African-Trinbagonians, with the result being the social decay and collapse that is evident today. You seem to dismiss my view on this point. That is fine. All I am asking of you is not to be dismayed as the economic and social collapse of the African-Trinbagonian continues unabated.
Admittedly, cultural discovery is a long-term goal and cannot be achieved overnight; however there are things that the mainly African-descended community can do to return to the stability of earlier decades. Firstly, there needs to be a resurgence of the ideals of family and community-building within the African-Trinbagonian community. My wise Mizrahi Jewish Kohan has always declared that “family is the center of all living and in living, you live”. This is a very profound and true adage. Strong families lead to strong communities, which lead to strong municipalities, which eventually lead to strong countries. It is only when the African-Trinbagonian rejects the souless secularism of American culture and the destructiveness of gangsta rap and dancehall culture that there will be a resurgence of the African-Trinbagonian community.
You may not agree with me, and to you, it may seem “simplistic” as you put it, but everything starts from the smallest element and grows organically. So this is my two cents.
As for the rancourous tenor of my previous post, I am willing to let bygones be bygones and continue engaging in debate with you. The only thing I ask that our future interactions be marked by respect and civility.
And with that I bid you and this blog topic farewell for now.
Thanks likewise ,Triniamerican , for opening up ,and giving us , a slight peek behind the ‘cyber mask ,’ too many of us feel forced to put on, for all sorts of logical reasons, as we attempt to engage each other , and the Trini center, reading nation ,as a whole.
It’s a beautiful thing, and since 2908,I have enjoyed every bit of it , frustrating as it might be at times , when I pounce on de scene.
Apologies are in order on my part , where on occasions , I might have come across in a brash / crude, possibly uncivil manner,towards you my good friend.
One cannot constantly berate others – especially from triumphalist nation – as to their need to display a sense of respect for the other, as far as public discourse , then I resort to the same revolting behavior .
As for my ‘elements of humor,’you’ve alluded to ,however , my advice is to ,please be careful, as de grounds you are walking on , with dis conclusion , is a holy,one- using that stolen King James , sky Christian,revengeful , ble eyed , skygod bible ,as a backdrop.
In de words of -who else -yep, my late , wise,Tobago Grandmom,”all skin teeth, ain’t laugh!” Beware, and always try to decipher , what is my end game , buddy!
I am a big fan of political satire, and won’t mind putting together, a cartoon on Triumphalist Nation, and their rabid fans , led by ,’Her Mjestick Quuen K,’ leader of de UNC dominant PP,of course.
Take care TriniAmerican – especially in these United States of Pax Americana.
In ending , as you attempt to traverse the T&T,and wider global community’s socio political land scape , while also doing your personal religious introspection , to figure out ,Who you really are , remeber de admonition of that Loco , German philosophical freak ,Frederick Nietzsche, dat often times “when you look into th abyss , the abyss ,looks into you.”
Just do , and be you , while appreciating he value of solidarity with, and empathy for de other ,mi amigo.
Good grief Trini American, lost my Trini ID yesterday, got to try an get another , and what if I am stopped by ‘one oh Jack Warner’s Police / Army ,patrols?’Ah shucks , who cares, dis ain’t America.Here ID’s only has relevance during election time, yes?
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