Diplomatic Blunders

By Raffique Shah
November 06, 2011

Raffique ShahTRINIDAD and Tobago’s Ambassador to the United Nations, Rodney Charles, took two rather curious positions over the past week. On October 31, the UNESCO’s General Conference voted on a motion to admit Palestine to that organisation. Mr Charles abstained. Then last Thursday, Mr Charles was one of only three ambassadors who accepted invitations to have lunch with Marine Le Pen, French presidential candidate and leader of the extreme right-wing party, the National Front.

I imagine after that opening paragraph, many readers yawned, and after reading what my fellow-columnists wrote, dismissed this intervention as being inconsequential. We have always relegated foreign affairs to the lowest rung of the issues-ladder. We have so many matters of national importance, why bother with a few million Palestinians in some hellhole a million miles away? And who the hell is Le Pen? Why waste valuable media space on her, on why Mr Charles chose to have lunch with her?

This country’s approach to foreign relations has been limited to our trade interests, with but a few exceptions. For example, we have always voted with most of the world when the issue of the United States’ 50-year economic blockade of Cuba comes up before the General Assembly: remove it, our ambassadors have said, echoing what 90 per cent of UN member states say. Veto, shouts the US representatives—and Cuba suffers for another year.

I make one observation on this matter. The US has the right to decide what countries it has relations with, so excluding Cuba as a trade or investment partner is not the issue. What is criminal is for the US to use its might to deny other countries, as well as all corporations, their right to have relations with Cuba. Of course, most nations ignore the US. Canada and European countries have maintained healthy relations with Cuba, as have Caribbean countries.

Indeed, Cuba’s thriving tourism sector benefits from large numbers of visitors originating from Canada and Europe. But the US turns the screws on corporations that seek to do business in Cuba, as is currently the case with oil companies wanting to drill offshore the island.

But back to our man at the UN, Rodney Charles. Why did he abstain when the vote on admitting Palestine to UNESCO came before the Conference? Was he acting on instructions from Foreign Affairs Minister Suruj Rambachan? Did he abstain by “vaps”? For the record, 107 countries voted in favour of the motion, 14 against, and 52 abstained.

Rambachan needs to inform the people of this country if his Government’s policy is that Palestine has no place among nations of the world. According to the UN’s website, “UNESCO’s mission is to contribute to the building of peace, the eradication of poverty, sustainable development and intercultural dialogue through education, the sciences, culture, communication and information.”

Are we consciously denying millions of Palestinians from enjoying the benefits of this non-political agency? Did Mr Charles, in our name (well, he does represent us all), decide it was in our best interests to scuttle Palestinians’ efforts to “build peace” or “eradicate poverty”?

We need to know what’s in Mr Charles’s mind because later this week an even more critical vote comes before the Security Council—whether or not to admit Palestine as a full member of the UN. There was speculation last week that the UK, Germany and Colombia would abstain, which is a step short of opposing it. The USA will exercise its veto, so while the issue is an important one, Palestine will remain a prison-state, courtesy the USA, Israel and a recalcitrant few.

How the big powers play their geopolitical games is of mainly academic interest to us in tiny T&T. At the very least, though, we need to adopt principled positions on critical issues. Apartheid-like conditions in Palestine is something we ought never to condone. We must speak out against the atrocious conditions the Palestinian people are forced to live under, virtual slaves in their homeland.

Palestine aside, what went through Mr Charles’s head when he agreed to have lunch with Marine Le Pen? This woman represents the ugly face of racism in France, and worse, the resurgence of Nazism in Europe. In ordinary circumstances, she would spit on Mr Charles’s face and hurl the N-word at him. But there he was, one of only three ambassadors to the UN, sharing a meal, and, I suppose, polite conversation, with her.

Le Pen’s father, when he was leader of the National Front, had made negative remarks about the extermination of Jews in Nazi concentration camps, for which he was jailed. Interestingly, among the handful of persons who met with Le Pen was Israel’s ambassador to the UN, Ron Prosor.

He reportedly left after 30 minutes (before lunch), saying his attendance was because of a “misunderstanding”.

That left Mr Charles and ambassadors from Uruguay and Armenia as the only persons of note in attendance. It’s not as if Le Pen looks like she would be the next president of France so our man needed to court her. The woman was on tour of the USA, seeking to enhance her profile.

What these two episodes tell us is that our foreign affairs are rudderless and in shambles, left to the whims and fancies of political appointees posted to head diplomatic missions. Line Minister Rambachan must shoulder some blame for Mr Charles’s twin-faux-pas.

Or, as the man charged with shaping our new foreign relations policies, he must let citizens know what is Government’s position on politically-charged issues like the recognition of Palestine and fraternising with neo-Nazis.

49 Responses to “Diplomatic Blunders”


  • Is it so difficult to figure out that T&T is better off not offending the US?

  • Our Diplomats will forever be committing blunders. Our Nation on the whole are cocoon between New York Canada & London. We have failed miserably in reaching out to the World much less understanding and keeping up with the World “movements”.Our Indian mission has been turned into a cheerleader’s ministry, and our strange relations with Israel lies in secret but unprofitable military irrelevance to our disadvantage.However our biggest diplomatic blunder is or failure to embrace Africa and South&Latin America brotherly though needed partners. If T&T would focus more intensely on developing countries we’d been a jewel we deserve to be-economically socially stable with a guaranteed future among the successful. Our politicians just don’t know whats out there and our diplomats are prisoners to colonial protocols which reflects our lack of independence as a sovereign state. In short; we are a bunch of civil servants to colonial relics. If I was/am Ambassador Trinidad will be a beam among the stars and Brian Lara wold be my cherished accompany-to start with.

  • “Apartheid-like conditions in Palestine is something we ought never to condone. We must speak out against the atrocious conditions the Palestinian people are forced to live under, virtual slaves in their homeland.”

    One reason Palestine is still where it is today “Jerusalem”. The Israeli gave the Palestinians all their land demands but the biggest demand for Jerusalem becoming their capital was rejected.
    No Jerusalem equals no Palestine.
    Prophecy regarding Jerusalem
    Zechariah 12
    Jerusalem’s Enemies to Be Destroyed
    1 A prophecy: The word of the LORD concerning Israel.
    The LORD, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the human spirit within a person, declares: 2 “I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem. 3 On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves.

    Only the return of Christ will stop this madness.

  • Mamboo get your most obvious ,pandering head from out of the dirty Ecacas sand ,my brother , for as cuz Yarouba Israelite would also correctly enlighten you, these evil , war mongering ,genocidal nuts ,that are presently making Hitler look like the POPE, were not the people referred to in our stolen ,’AfrikanSunGod’ Bible.
    We know why you however admire them , but know that we are on to ‘you alls, bird of a feather / as a man thinketh ,so is he ,flock together game.’ Get a grip!
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2006/dec/12/israel.politicsphilosophyandsociety

    Yes, we know , you think that their buddy , in those white dehumanizing, Dutch/ British barbarian South Afrikan criminals were also great , because a few docile folks from de tribe, were told that they are special colored.

    http://www.zimbio.com/Ghandi+quotes/articles/23/ML+King+know+Gandhi+racism
    Take note mamboo. Globalization of the discontented , from Palestine to Joburg, and can we add, our neck of the woods Guyana , sorry , T&T. Just kidding!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2N0D5_viVA&feature=related

    Yet folks are still perplexed ,as to why there is so much carnage globally, and why in our specific case T&T , can never advance beyond , …. well, fill in the blanks folks. Repeat after me mamboo:- BEWARE OF A MAN / WOMAN WITH NOTHING TO LOOSE!

  • Well, I suspect that Trinidad and Tobago abstained because it views the US (a country where the economy is imploding as we speak) as our economic savior. Also, one must not underestimate the strength of the Israel lobby. Many notable figures (former White House Press Corps member Helen Thomas in particular) has felt the wrath of the lobby when anyone dare to make comments not in keeping with the “Israel is so great, we are the Chosen People” mantra.

    The problem is that our country, being as small as it is, must really work to strengthen our relationship with countries that are outside the influential orbit of the United States, who is unfortunately joined at the hip with Israel.

    Our government has to realize that the tide is slowly but surely beginning to turn against Israel and that people are no longer intimidated by the Holocaust and anti-Semite card that the Zionist opportunists play whenever one voices legitimate concerns about Israel’s crimes against the Palestinian.

    The fact that the UNESCO vote even took place at all is a sign that Israel can browbeat countries no longer. T&T needs to awaken to this fact and take a courageous stand against the atrocities being committed in the name of a State that was created as a result of a cynical misinterpretation of religion, which should NEVER mix with politics anyway.

  • Don’t shed any tears for Auntie Helen Thomas , triniamerican , as she a lifelong elite , should have been put out to pasture, a long time ago ,just like a few of our long tooth, local politicians, yes?
    If I am not mistaken ,she was around in her privileged position since LBJ , and no one knew she had a pint of Arab blood in her body , until she finally opened her mouth , long after being snubbed by the G.W Bush government.
    In short , one looses credibility , if one remained silent on seemingly ,immoral ,reprehensible behaviors performed by others ,for decades , then only evolve with a conscience, when one is ready to enter the grave, or one back is placed against the wall.
    Her sudden change in public attitude , for example , would be tantamount to guys like our wonderful straight shooting objective Speaker Mark, or well known Lil Black boy despiser,of Chambers Duncy fame,in Culture Minister ,Uncle Gypsy-both ardent supporters of the ULF/ Club 88,UNC,who silently did the limbo break dance , ‘cat cut their tongue operations,’on any of the apparent / and suspect, malfeasance , their one time bosses did, to suddenly wake up in 2011, and denounce left, right ,and center every policy the party ,it’s leaders , financial supporters , and ardent constituency fans stood for, since 1976 when papa Bas ,and Uncle Shah, were still on speaking terms.
    Let’s just say , ‘one oh dem ,’ would find himself right back in Mayaro ,pretending to be a greasy head ,gerrycole cowboy, singing tasteless ,country and western laced kaisos , to entertain half drunk fishermen, and as for the other,he’ll become , maybe if lucky , a trade union , bottle carrier in Chief,for likewise abandoning the movement -that gave him his initial start to power-still struggling folks he left behind for fame and fortunes, and worst yet ,every principle, he ever possess in his once caring soul. Just kidding Mr Speaker, and Uncle Gypsy, our culture warrior.
    As for you Trinamerican , I might be over de top in my depictions , but you catch my drift, yes?
    Now in ending , here is your lesson for de day, my naive friend :- Politics 101 Triniamerican dictates dat ,one should 1.Never bite de hands that feeds you. 2. Learn the rules of the food chain.
    America , though a bit wounded presently, remains a a global Superpower, and pretenders such as China, Russia , and the economically struggling jokers across the EU , could scream how much they wish, as there is only one country every child of a leader , great entertaining artist, major scientist , or domestic hero, wish to not only visit, but finally live in.
    Doubt me , then ask ‘our Trini proudly born in Zoo York , Project Runaway Star ,a la ‘budding movie actress,’ and future cultural ambassador Anya, hmmmm?

    http://www.trinidadexpress.com/woman-magazine/Michele_Jodhan-Ayoung_Chee-133280958.html
    Ah tell you , de man or woman, who can make me hate dis land ain’t born yet.
    Hey Peter Minchel , can I place a late order for my moko jumbie outfit? Where my savage massive at? Curfew over, let de mass begin, ennnt?

    • I am well aware that the US is our benefactor, but that is not really the case now is it. With its national credit card well over the limit and its credit status downgraded to a double A rating (China, the pretender owns a lot of the US debt and is going about cementing its foothold in Africa), so I am not sure how much longer T&T can rely on Captain America to make everything alright.

      I never said it was going to be easy, which is why I do not necessarily blame our country for abstaining on the UNESCO vote. To vote “yes” would have put our country in a diplomatically untenable position vis-á-vis the United States, which still has the military sting in its tail and has no compunction about launching a military invasion to advance its “interests” (Maurice Bishop learnt this the hard way).

      But, as I said, the tide is turning against Israel, and one should not underestimate the ramifications for state of the global status quo. The UNESCO situation would not have been countenanced in the past. Thus, the Zionist sidekick, the good ole’ USA, is now involved in a diplomatic standoff with the world and I am suspect in its heart of hearts, would like to remove the Israel albatross from around its neck, as it is making its position in the world, especially the Middle East, more and more untenable.

      To sum up, the Eurocentric and Americocentric orders are falling apart at the seams and anyone desperately sucking at their teats will go down with them. So yes, I agree, T&T should engage in some diplomatic chicanery and vote in lockstep with US and Zionist positions. However, T&T must quietly consider other viable trading alliances when the dust settles.

  • http://rt.com/news/obama-sarkozy-undiplomatic-netanyahu-789/
    The presidents of America and France have aired complaints about the Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, in the course of a private conversation overhead by journalists, reports say. President Sarkozy went so far as to call Netanyahu a liar.
    “I can’t stand him!” the Frenchman told his American counterpart in a would-be confidential discussion. Obama’s reply was “You’re fed up with him, but I have to deal with him every day!”

  • there’s a big difference between equality and getting even.

  • Jordan–89,342 sq km
    Egypt –1,001,450 sq km
    Syria –185,180 sq km
    Saudi Arabia–2,149,690 sq km

    Israel–20,770 sq km
    Trinidad –5,128 sq km

    Muslims globally— 1,400,000,000
    Jews globally—13,000,000

    This 20,770 sq km of land has been the constant source of conflict since the rebirth of the Jewish nation. The ratio for Jewish to Muslim is 1:108. The land is only 4 times the size of Trinidad.

    The history of the Jewish people on this land goes back to 1000 B.C. When King David drove out the Jebusites and made Jerusalem his capital. The history of Muslim conquest of their lands goes pass the 7th century AD. Comparatively Jewish history in Israel dates to over 3000 years. Islamic history in the region dates to less than 1300 years. The land that Muslims live in was conquered by the sword, techinically it is the pot calling the kettle black when they refer to Israel as ocuppiers.

    Who have the greater claim to Israel? Obviously it would be the Jewish people who were victims of mass murder when the Romans under General Titus invaded Jerusalem in 70 AD. According to Jewish historian Josephus blood flowed down the narrow streets like a deluge. At that time they fled and were scattered globally. Leaving a remnant in the land.

    Trinidad must follow the lead of the Americans since our economy depend on their good graces towards us. Besides much of our spy equipment and weapons have a “made in Israel label”. If Muslims truly cared about the Palestinians, they could easily absorb all of them into their nation. As the land mass show there is enough space for everyone. Additionally, oil rich Islamic nation have enough money and to take care of every Palestian. But such logic defies those who live in that part of the world.

    • I really do not care who was where first.The fact of the matter is that Palestinians were driven out of their homes by Zionist opportunists, who incidentally, have little or nothing to do with true Judaism, and have hijacked this beautiful faith for their own cynical ends.
      There are actually orthodox jews who oppose the State of Israel:

      http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

      http://www.nkusa.org/AboutUs/Zionism/opposition.cfm

      70 A.D. was a long time ago. Palestinians had established communities in Israel before the David Ben-Gurion and his cohorts carried out their land grab.

      The morass in the Israel, Gaza and the West Bank proves that religious doctrine in the hands of rapacious individuals is a dangerous thing. Sometimes I believe that religious texts have caused more bloodshed than any other document.

      As for T&T’s role, our government should stand back and not take any sides as there is obviously dissension within the ranks as the mic gaffe involving Sarkozy and Obama illustrates. At the same time, T&T should not be on the wrong side of history.

      • “The morass in the Israel, Gaza and the West Bank proves that religious doctrine in the hands of rapacious individuals is a dangerous thing. Sometimes I believe that religious texts have caused more bloodshed than any other document.”

        Trains arrived at Auschwitz-Birkenau frequently with transports of Jews from virtually every country in Europe occupied by or allied to Germany. These transports arrived from 1942 to the end of summer 1944. The breakdown of deportations from individual countries, given in approximate figures, is: Hungary: 426,000; Poland: 300,000; France: 69,000; Netherlands: 60,000; Greece: 55,000; Bohemia and Moravia: 46,000; Slovakia: 27,000; Belgium: 25,000; Yugoslavia: 10,000; Italy: 7,500; Norway: 690; other (including concentration camps): 34,000.

        With the deportations from Hungary, the role of Auschwitz-Birkenau as an instrument in the German plan to murder the Jews of Europe achieved its highest effectiveness. Between late April and early July 1944, approximately 440,000 Hungarian Jews were deported, around 426,000 of them to Auschwitz. The SS sent approximately 320,000 of them directly to the gas chambers in Auschwitz-Birkenau and deployed approximately 110,000 at forced labor in the Auschwitz concentration camp complex. The SS authorities transferred many of these Hungarian Jewish forced laborers within weeks of their arrival in Auschwitz to other concentration camps in Germany and Austria.

        In total, approximately 1.1 million Jews were deported to Auschwitz. SS and police authorities deported approximately 200,000 other victims to Auschwitz, including 140,000-150,000 non-Jewish Poles, 23,000 Roma and Sinti (Gypsies), 15,000 Soviet prisoners of war, and 25,000 others (Soviet civilians, Lithuanians, Czechs, French, Yugoslavs, Germans, Austrians, and Italians).

        New arrivals at Auschwitz-Birkenau underwent selection. The SS staff determined the majority to be unfit for forced labor and sent them immediately to the gas chambers, which were disguised as shower installations to mislead the victims. The belongings of those gassed were confiscated and sorted in the “Kanada” (Canada) warehouse for shipment back to Germany. Canada symbolized wealth to the prisoners.

        People like Neal, Neverdirty, Cudjoe whine about slavery but take a look at what the Jews endured. Genocide. Who would begrudge them a small piece of land???

        • I am truly sorry for the hardships that the Jews endured during the Holocaust, but that does not make two wrongs a right. The Palestinian Jews should not have been made to suffer the consequences of Jewish suffering at the hands of Hitler and his cronies.

          Using your logic, then it is arguable that the descendants of the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade should be provided with homelands according to their individual ethnic groups, and if the actual inhabitants of these lands are forcibly displaced, so be it. For more information on this topic, you can check out this link:

          http://mondediplo.com/1997/12/palestine

          This is also an excellent book:

          http://www.amazon.com/Expulsion-Palestinians-Transfer-Political-1882-1948/dp/0887282423

          While there was the legal purchase of land by Jewish settlers, many Palestinians were simply driven from their homes in 1948 and that was simply wrong and indefensible, no matter how much Israel’s supporters try to justify it.

          As regrettable as the Holocaust was, it does not excuse the unlawful displacement of many Palestinians and the theocratic (Israel is a democracy in name only) imperialism being exercised in the Israeli government.

          So to sum up, two wrongs do not make a right. The Holocaust tragedy, as devastating as it was, does not make it right for the Israeli State has historically done.

          World leaders have always held these truths to be evident, but have always been bullied into a guilty silence by successive Zionist regimes who always employ the “Holocaust” card and the Bible argument. The Bible premise itself is extraordinary if you think about it.

          • By the same argument you could say that all decendents of slaves should take a one way flight back to Africa and leave T&T to the Carib and Arawaks. That all Americans should find themselves back in Europe and give the lands back to native Indians. The Native Indians were one of worst victims of American Genocide. Perhaps in the dingy little apartment where you are living in, most likely in Brooklyn, the land was taken from the Huron tribe. By that stretch also all lands conquered by the Muslims should be returned.

  • Israel, whose prime minister withdrew Friday from next week’s US-hosted nuclear summit, is viewed as the sixth country to have acquired nuclear weapons — a title it has neither denied nor confirmed.

    Analysts at British defense specialists Jane’s believe the Jewish state has between 100 and 300 nuclear warheads, putting them among the more advanced nuclear weapons states and roughly on a par with Britain.

    The London-based International Institute of Strategic Studies (IISS) estimates Israel has “up to 200″ warheads delivered on land-based short-range Jericho 1 and medium-range Jericho 2 missiles.

    The Nuclear Threat Initiative, a US advocacy group co-created by Ted Turner, the founder of CNN, puts the figure at 100 to 200.

    Israel is the only nuclear power in the Middle East with a program dating back to the 1950s under Israel’s first prime minister, David Ben Gurion.

    It was developed with the help of France and is centered on the Dimona reactor in the southern Negev desert.

    According to Jane’s, the Israeli strategic force could be deployed by the Jericho 2 missile, which has a range of up to 4,500 kilometers (2,800 miles), or the five-year-old Jericho 3, which reaches up to 7,800 kilometers.

    It is also believed to be able to deploy by air, using F-16 fighter jets, and even by sea through its submarine fleet, providing an opportunity for a second strike if its land systems are attacked.

    Israel acquired three diesel-powered Dolphin-class submarines in 1999-2000 which are capable of launching adapted Harpoon cruise missiles fitted with nuclear warheads.

    In addition, Jane’s says some observers believe Jerusalem has developed tactical nuclear weapons such as landmines and artillery shells.

    “Some analysts believe that Israel probably keeps most, if not all, of its nuclear arsenal in an unassembled mode,” the latest Jane’s briefing says, adding that “fully functional weapons could be completed in a matter of days”.

    Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu abruptly withdrew Friday from next week’s nuclear summit in Washington, underscoring Israeli reluctance to expose its own nuclear program to scrutiny.

    Perhaps this might be one of the reasons why the nations surrounding Israel are reluctant to attack again as they did in 1967

  • Mamoo: “Perhaps in the dingy little apartment where you are living in, most likely in Brooklyn, the land was taken from the Huron tribe”

    Wow, I thought that you had more class than to stoop to petty ad hominen insults, which have little or no relevance to the discussion than to make an assumption about someone you do not even know.

    Be careful my friend. You know what they say about assumptions. For your sake, please do not make them before finding out that you’re embarrassingly misinformed.

    I am happy to keep debating you, but the ad hominen attacks just detract from the value of what you are trying to convey.

    • “Wow, I thought that you had more class than to stoop to petty ad hominen insults, which have little or no relevance to the discussion than to make an assumption about someone you do not even know.”

      Trinamerican you miss the point completely and insttead engaged in this classless rambling saying your sorry living conditions add nothing to the topic at hand. Point taken.
      But I digress Triniamerican because you were tested by your own rules and you failed miserably.

      Triniamerican wrote:-
      “While there was the legal purchase of land by Jewish settlers, many Palestinians were simply driven from their homes in 1948 and that was simply wrong and indefensible, no matter how much Israel’s supporters try to justify it.”-

      So wasn’t it the same thing that uncle Sam did to the Native Americans, driving them like cattle into reservations. Taking their land, in fact taking millions of acres of land. Where was in justification in that?

      The Jewish people deserve a homeland. They have a homeland. The Palestinians do not want peace. Hamas has said clearly they want to exterminate the Jews. The Palestianians continue to launch rockets into Israel. So there will be no peace in the Middle East because it is wrong to make peace with your enemies.

      • “Trinamerican you miss the point completely and insttead engaged in this classless rambling saying your sorry living conditions add nothing to the topic at hand. Point taken.
        But I digress Triniamerican because you were tested by your own rules and you failed miserably.”

        Uhmm okay, seems like I’ve touched a nerve because you bring up my living conditions again. How do you know how I live? My “classless rambling” as you call it is to refute a personal attack you made on me and to show the illogical nature of it. I am actually trying to help you out, because, frankly speaking, it does not put you in a good light intellectually. Understand, or do I have to write it in simpler language?

        Anyway, back to the topic. As for the Jewish claim for a homeland, well that was the problem in the first place. They made the basis on the claim that there was some “biblical” claim to the land. This is not a sound legal principle. As I said the Jewish homeland argument is invalid because, at the risk of belabouring a point, suffering in the Jewish Holocaust does not make the exploitation of Palestinian lands justifiable. I have already provided sources. Perhaps you should read them.

        I do not condone the attacks by Hamas and believe that terrorist attacks do not solve anything. However, that does not justify the original crime that the Zionist regime committed by driving the Arabs off their land.

        • “Anyway, back to the topic. As for the Jewish claim for a homeland, well that was the problem in the first place. They made the basis on the claim that there was some “biblical” claim to the land”–Triniamerican.

          The history of the Bible is still clearly etched in that land. Where the mosque of Omar is located, there was the second temple built by Herod. The first was build on that spot by Solomon, the wall of Solomon is still there 3000 years later. Why was it NOT destroyed.

          In comparisson the wall of Babylon was destroyed. Here is a description –The ramparts around the city center around 17.5 m. The exterior walls were even 27 to 30 meters thick. The fortifications around the historic center towered 25 meters, 30 meters on the outer high. They walled up inside and out and filled the space with debris and mud from grave digging. In this way was a large embankment. The wall of Babylon was 18 km long and considered to bhe one of the seven wonders of the world.

          Why is it a wall built around the same time disappeared and the temple mount remains to this day? Jewish signatures are all over the land of the Bible.
          Maybe it was in the plan of the Almighty to bring back the Jewish people to the land. Why? The only thing that could have brought them back to the land was the place where the temple was built, because it ushered in the golden era of Judaism. The temple holds the highest significance for Jews along with Jerusalem. Those two places means everything for them.

          Besides there is a comprehensive, chronological history of Judaism written in the Bible with specific locations that can be found today in Israel. Your arguments are silly at best. It is like saying to Muslims vacate Saudi Arabia especially the area where the Kaaba is located in Makka.

          • What part of my argument is silly? My argument is on the legality of the Jewish acquisition of the lands. A Holy book that has been distorted many times over the years have no bearing on the legal merits of Israel’s claim.

            A noted Israeli historian Benny Morris in his book “Righteous Victims” admitted that the Arabs had to be “transferred” out of their lands to make way for the Jewish state. His coverage on this topic is from pages 252-258. This is not legal. He tactily admits it was not legal The Arabs did not agree to this. What part of this is a silly argument? This is why the “right of return” issue is so salient for so many Palesitnian Arabs today.

            And yes, the Native Americans were the victims of genocide by the European colonial invaders. Perhaps that is why the United States and Israel is so much like two peas in a pod. They have a common legacy.

            Always remember Zionism is not Judaism. Israel was founded on Zionists who manipulated a reglious text for their own ends. Orthodox rabbis have admitted this and even argue that Jews should not occupy the land. Any google search for Jews who are not Zionists will reveal this. In fact many Orthodx Rabbis will tell you that according to the Torah, the Jews are still supposed to be in exile. So they discount the biblical claim that the Zionists have made on the land.

            I do not know anything about the Muslims and Saudi Arabia, so I will limit my comments to the history of Palesitne, since I have done quite a bit of research on it.

  • “A noted Israeli historian Benny Morris in his book “Righteous Victims” admitted that the Arabs had to be “transferred” out of their lands to make way for the Jewish state.”

    The State of Israel has a population of approximately 7,785,400 inhabitants as of August 2011.[1] 75.3% of them are Jewish (about 5,865,300 individuals), 20.5% are Arabs (About 1,597,300 individuals), while the remaining 4.3% (about 318,200 individuals) are defined as “others” (family members of Jewish immigrants who are not registered at the Interior Ministry as Jews, non-Arab Christians, non-Arab Muslims and residents who do not have a religious classification).

    I fail to understand your argument Triniamerican. The Arab population is Israel is more that the population of Trinidad and Tobago. Please stop spreading these lies and heresies and carefully examine your facts!!!

    • I think that you need to examine your facts.

      As for my facts:

      http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mf18.ht

      Israeli-Arabs do not have the same rights of the Jews in Israel and are actually internally displaced.

      http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4493525.stm

      http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4050228,00.html

      I have many more sources I can post credible sources all day and I think that you are the one being intellectually dishonest and are displaying a lack of understanding.

      I do commend you for acknowledging the Israeli-Arabs. However, again, you have unwittingly placed yourself in another weak position because Israeli-Arab citizens are not accorded with the same status.

      If you fail to understand my argument it is because you do not want to for whatever reason.

      • Triniamerican “Israeli-Arabs do not have the same rights of the Jews in Israel and are actually internally displaced”
        Saudi Arabia–2,149,690 sq km
        Israel—–20,770 sq km
        Saudi population Population— (July 2010 est.): 28.7 million (23.1 million Saudis, 5.6 million foreign nationals).
        Annual population growth rate: (2010 est.): 1.8%.
        Ethnic groups: Arab (90% of native pop.), Afro-Asian (10% of native pop.).
        Are there any Jews living in Saudi Arabia, Triniamerican?
        If the Arabians are not happy in Israel they can go back to Saudia.

        As for internal displacement I see it all the time. For instance in that dingy lil apartment where you are living, it was once occupied by white folks, who move out after some black folks moved in and a few guns shots were fired. Are we going to say white folks are displaced internally in America also??? Please quit the double standard, Triniamerican and be thankful for what you have in life. And leave the Jews alone.

    • “The Arab population is Israel is more that the population of Trinidad and Tobago.”

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBPf29ZOWkg

      So is the Indian population during , and after Apartheid, in South Afrika, as well as Sri Lanka, Fiji, and Uganda, so what’s your point Mr selectively outraged apologist ,for Jewish ,genocidal criminality!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDKw0f95k7Q

      Thanks Rachel for your solidarity with the weak and historically maligned .
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1LE7TtB158&feature=related
      Shame on you mamoo, and your similar socially immoral kind!

      • Neal, thank you for your support. I now understand what you have to go through when you are attempting to debate Mamoo.

        • Hang in there buddy, as you simply try to educate, and sensitize the wider masses,to obvious , prevailing global injustices, as you too use self serving , pandering creatures , as ‘a means to an end.’
          Luv Humanity!

          • I am really enjoying my vacation. I should not take advantage of people though. I feel kind of guilty; then again I don’t really.

  • “As for internal displacement I see it all the time. For instance in that dingy lil apartment where you are living, it was once occupied by white folks, who move out after some black folks moved in and a few guns shots were fired. Are we going to say white folks are displaced internally in America also??? Please quit the double standard, Triniamerican and be thankful for what you have in life. And leave the Jews alone.”

    Again, you are distracting with this dingy apartment talk. If I were say Mamoo is a virulent racist, would that make it true? Do I have I have to spell it out in simpler language for you the unwise path that an ad hominen line of attack takes.

    Back on point, the issue of Jews in Saudi Arabia and other countries are red herrings and has nothing to do with this discussion and is a method of deflecting which is another poor debating tactic. The issue is the internal displacement of Arabs in Palestine, of which I have provided countless examples to back up my claim. If you choose to ignore the evidence, then you are simply not a serious intellectual and are acutally wasting my time. Luckily, I am on a much needed vacation (I make a pretty good living and do not live in a “dingy apartment”) and can dispel the myths that you put forth here.

    You have also not provided any credible data refuting what my main argument. To recap, the main topic is the displacement of Arabs from their lands in 1948 and not the current population statistics of Israel and what is happening in other Arab lands. You have actually not even addressed this question the whole time we have been debating but have chosen to deflect and engage in petty and childish ad hominen attacks. This reveals a lot about you and trust me, it’s not good.

    • “Back on point, the issue of Jews in Saudi Arabia and other countries are red herrings and has nothing to do with this discussion and is a method of deflecting which is another poor debating tactic”

      There are no Jews in Saudi Arabia, they will be killed in heart-beat. The point is the Jewish people are small in number and do not have any other place but Israel to call their homeland. They are subjected to constant attack by Hamas, Hezbollah and other terrorist groups around that region. In Mumbai, the terrorist made sure and attack a Jewish place of refuge. Why? Because they are told if you kill a Jew Allah will receive you into heaven immediately upon death.

      Over a million Arabs live in Israel, but you will not find a million Jews in any Islamic nations. This indicate that the Jewish people are tolerant and compassionate towards others. Futhermore Israel is a democratic nation surrounded by dictatorships. As for internal displacement in such a small strip of land there will be Arab as well as Jewish displacement. Many Jewish settlement has been bulldozen in the name of peace. I fail to see your point.

      Additionally people can relocate and live peacefully in many parts of the world. “As of 2006, the United States accepts more legal immigrants as permanent residents than all other countries in the world combined.[1] Since the removal of ethnic quotas in immigration in 1965,[2] the number of first- generation immigrants living in the United States has quadrupled,[3] from 9.6 million in 1970 to about 38 million in 2007.[4] 1,046,539 persons were naturalized as U.S. citizens in 2008. The leading emigrating countries to the United States were Mexico, India, the Philippines, and China.[5] Nearly 14 million immigrants came to the United States from 2000 to 2010.[6]”

      Nearly 14 million people came to the U.S. including yourself Mr. Triniamericano. These Palestianis could be easily absorbed into fellow Islamic nations. But that will never happen. That is why there will be a final conflict in the Middle East and nothing you are I say really matters….

  • Uh, there is only one problem with your line of argument; Jews have always in Israel side by with the Palestinians and I have remarked before, the problem has been the Zionist impostition of the State of Israel.

    Again, your point about other countries continues to be a red herring, but continue to flog that dead horse if you may. If you want to be a pro-Zionist (Not Jewish mind you) supporter of the Israeli regime, so be it. You are on the wrong side of history and the blood of millions of Palestinians are on your hands. Bleating about what may or may not happen to Jews in other hands is a separate matter.

    Hamas and other groups engage in terror attacks because they believe that their land has been unfairly taken from them by the Zionists. Before you tar me with the terrorist brush, I do not and have never condoned Hamas’ tactics.

    My migration to the US is yet another red herring and it is a sign that you are really losing this debate because you still not have addressed the actual legality of the original land transfers which are at the genesis of this conflict. Deflect all you want and engage in petty name calling all you want, I solid scholarship on my side and all you have is regrettable bombast.

    However, since I am actually pitying your weakly constructed arguments I am going to help you out a little. This is how you refute someone’s point on an issue such as, in this case, the land issue:

    http://books.google.com/books/about/The_Land_Question_in_Palestine_1917_1939.html?id=d3BEKtPoX9oC

    The above link represents a pro-Israel view of the situation.

    However to counter that, I have Benny Morris’ “Righteous Victims” and United Nations Resolution 194 which granted the Palestinian refugees the right of return to their land. The United Nations thus admitted that the Palesinians were refugees and did have the right of return to their lands. Unfortunately, as history has shown, this has not come to pass.

    Until I see scholarly sources refuting my points (of which you have provided none), I will continue to enjoy toying with you and reducing you to making petty insults.

    • You are on the wrong side of history and the blood of millions of Palestinians are on your hands. Bleating about what may or may not happen to Jews in other hands is a separate matter.

      What about American history that you are a party to. The native North American Indians were given false treatises, land stolen, women raped and suffered considerably. Do you consider their cause less than the Palestinian cause for which you are a strong advocate for?

      As you sit in your dingy American apartment, did you ever consider that the place where you are staying may have involved the deaths of many people? And therefore your hands are equally stain with the blood of these people. Here is another example of you the pot calling the kettle black.

  • “As you sit in your dingy American apartment, did you ever consider that the place where you are staying may have involved the deaths of many people?”

    Okay, this is really getting tiresome now and you clearly have nothing of substance to add.

    Thank you for playing. Better luck next time.

  • Oh yeah, I forgot to add Mamoo, I am actually moving out of the United States in the near future for exactly the reasons you described.

    And word to the wise, saying the same same insult over and over again makes you look really not too intelligent.

    Come up with some more creative material.

  • Triniamerican–“Oh yeah, I forgot to add Mamoo, I am actually moving out of the United States in the near future for exactly the reasons you described.”

    I admire your passion for this subject. You are always free to say what you think. I may no agree with you but it does not mean that you are wrong. As for the US a lot of people are leaving. Just had a girl wrote to me from DC saying it is nigh impossible to get a decent job. In T&T the government is giving away $300 million to starving people so that they would not turn to crime. The previous administration did a similar exercise and the result was mass importation of “guns” from money earned or stolen from the treasury. Hopefully this time it will be different. To you Shalom.

    • I have passion for the subject because I have researched the matter and know the real truth behind the Zionist deceptions in the State of Israel, which have little or nothing to do with the true spirit of Judaism.

      This issue has a personal stake for me because as fate would have it, I discovered my ancient Semitic roots. When I announce I have Arab ancestry, I am also announcing that I am in effect a Jew, since Jews and Arabs are essentially the same people genetically. That is why it is wrong to characterize the conflict in Israel is an ethnic one. It may be a relgious one, but not be an ethnic one.

      In effect to draw on Biblical imagery, the Zionist demon has pulled the wool over the world’s eyes, including many sincere and well-meaning Jews, whose suffering during the Holocaust has been manipulated by an infernal political machine.

      There is more to me than what I write here, but I choose not to divulge everything because the Internet can be a dangerous place.

      To sum up, never believe everything you read and try to keep your eyes open in this tumultuous time, where the wickedness of the American and Zionist empires will be brought to account. Just look at world events. The UNESCO vote has unleashed a diplomatic tsunami. This sort of action was unthinkable just a few years ago. Many of these nations with their own scholars and sharp political minds, have begun to realize the truth of the matter and speak out.

      So stay vigilant and keep your eyes open, because next year will be one like no other.

      • When I announce I have Arab ancestry, I am also announcing that I am in effect a Jew, since Jews and Arabs are essentially the same people genetically.

        .

        I take issue with this because it is untrue, although there is a half-truth present. The most pernicious lies are the ones which are half-true, for those are the ones best able to deceive.

        So allow me to clarify the matter based on the biblical genealogies. The Bible repays study, I find. Armed with it, one may become immune to Satan’s wicked program, the main element of which is deception of one form or another. I agree with much of what you wrote in the rest of your article, but you aid Satan’s program when you propagate misleading half-truths.

        Here are the facts:

        1) Seedline propagates from father to son. In terms of biblical genealogy, you are what your father is, go back to Noah, and thence to Adam. The first-level seedline division of mankind is therefore by the sons of Noah: Shem, Ham, and Japheth. By paternal seedline descent, we are all unambiguously one, and only one, of the three. We may not know which, but the Most High and his angels are keeping meticulous track.

        2) Abraham’s seedline is central to what is unfolding in the world today. Abraham, it was prophesied, would become the “father of many nations”.

        3) Abraham fathered, among others, Ishmael and Isaac.

        4) Ishmael was his son with Hagar, the Egyptian hand-maid of Sarah, Abraham’s wife.

        5) Isaac was his son with Sarah.

        6) Yahweh passed over Ishmael to make his covenant with Isaac. Pointedly so: “And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee! And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him” (Genesis 17:18-19). Nevertheless, Ishmael promised Hagar that he would bless Ishmael and make his seed after him into a great nation (Genesis 21:18). This was fulfilled. Ishmael’s first wife was Egyptian (Genesis 21:21). He had 12 sons. These became the princes of Arabia. Added to the Arab nation were among others the Hagarenes (other children of Hagar, impliedly not with Abraham), and the Keturahites (others of Abraham’s children with Keturah). In time, the Arabs would embrace other peoples. For example, the original Philistines were a Hamitic people, descended from Ham’s fourth son, Canaan. Therefore today’s Palestinians are Arab, but not necessarily Ishmaelite of the seed. More generally, all Ishmaelites are Arab, but not all Arabs are Ishmaelite. Moreover, because of the seedline connection to Abraham, all Ishmaelites are Hebrew: Hebrew Ishmaelite.

        7) Isaac had two sons: Esau and Jacob. Esau’s name was later changed to Edom. Jacob’s name was later changed to Israel.

        8) Therefore, on the family tree descended from Abraham, there are at least three distinct branches: the Hebrew Ishmaelites, the Hebrew Edomites, and the Hebrew Israelites. Obviously they are related, in that they share the same patriarch, Abraham. They also all share the Abrahamic covenant, under which Yahweh promised to be their God (Genesis 17:7). This does not apply to other people. This covenant is marked by the requirement of male circumcision. Hence, Ishmaelites, Edomites, and Israelites all practice male circumcision. (Note: there is no requirement of female circumcision, therefore that practice is unlawful to Hebrew Israelites, Hebrew Edomites, and Hebrew Ishmaelites. If Hamites do it, e.g. Kushites of Ethiopia, that is up to them.)

        9) Yahweh skipped over Esau, as earlier he skipped over Ishmael, and made his special covenant with Isaac (Genesis 26:4), and then with Israel (Genesis 27:28-29). The children of Israel are Yahweh’s “chosen people”. But he also gave a special blessing to Esau (Genesis 27:39-40). They have had dominion “by the sword” for the last 2,500-odd years, and have exercised power, but not by their own power, rather covertly, from behind the scenes (Daniel 8:24). They are the wicked that rule the earth, together with the Khazar Jews of the seed of Japheth who “dwell in the tents of Shem” (Genesis 9:26-27) and moreover make Canaan his servant. This is Khazar Jewish oppression of the Palestinians (Canaan). Anyway, their time is up, we are in the end-time of the various countdowns spoken of by Daniel and John the Revelator (and the countdowns agree once the riddles in which they are couched are decoded, nay revealed). The seedline of Israel is to follow Hebrew Edomite (but in effect Khazar Jewish) rule. We the true Hebrew Israelites are to be a kingdom of priests, under Yeshua, and a holy nation, through whom the other nations will come to know Yahweh. In the meantime, all manner of pagan gods enjoy this or that authority or power, sometimes used for good, sometimes for evil. As karibkween has pointed out, there is indeed a science of theurgy, under which pagan gods may be bargained with for this or that purpose. In particular, Yahweh allowed evil into the world — for what precise purpose is unclear. “The earth is given into the hand of the wicked: he covereth the faces of the judges thereof; if not, where, and who is he?” (Job 9:24). But in any case, Yeshua tells us that we are to “overcome” this evil. Those who do are promised, among others, eternal life. Those who do not, are promised the lake of fire. The point remains that the Israelites are chosen, and were written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world. We the Hebrew Israelites are destined for eternal life in the presence of God, living in the New Jerusalem. But only if we are truthful, righteous and clean, and therefore capable of surviving in the Most High’s presence. Some who to all appearances are none of these things, may also be “saved” from the lake of fire, for Yahweh says he will be merciful unto whom he will be merciful, for he alone can search out the heart. In other words, some Israelites who are irretrievably trapped by Satan’s tricks and deceits, may nevertheless be saved by grace as opposed to works. The simple may be so saved. Some non-Israelites may also enjoy this blessing, but on the same conditions.

        10) Israel, like Ishmael, had 12 sons. The fourth son, Judah, was granted the right to rule, and from his seed sprang David, and Solomon. From his seed, the prophecy was, the sceptre shall not depart. Yeshua came out of the seedline of Judah. He it was who was the “first begotten of the dead”. He also it was who said, “before Abraham was, I AM”. That is not to say that Yeshua and Yahweh are the same, rather only that as spirit, Yeshua was born before all of his Israelite brethren. As spirit, he existed before David, and before David’s father, Jesse. He is the “root and offspring of Jesse”, i.e. he came *before* Jesse, and is the distant *offspring* of David, both at the same time. Indeed, he pre-existed even Abraham.

        11) Those living in the land of Judah — the Roman province of Judea — came to be known as “Jews” (or the Greek and Roman equivalent) certainly by Roman times, regardless of whether there was seedline connection to Judah, or not. And there were many mingled peoples living in the Roman province of Judea, not only Judahites, Benjamites, and Levites who originally propulated the southern kingdom named after Judah, but also some few Israelites of the scattered northern tribes who had returned, as well as non-Israelite Edomites (e.g King Herod), and non-Israelite Sephardim (Samaritans).

        12) The Edomites had already moved up into the land of Judah when Nebuchadnezzar removed Israel to captivity in Babylon (Obadiah 1:10-11). There was a temporary return under Ezra and Nehemiah during the time of Persian hegemony. But the remainder of the true Israelites were scattered, mostly south and west into Africa, by 70 CE, when Jersusalem was sacked by Rome. That set the stage for identity theft.

        13) This was a Yahweh matter and a fulfillnent of prophecy. The true Israelites were “discontinued from their heritage” (Jeremiah 17:4), i.e. lost our identity as Israelites. In the meantime, the “Jews” of the province of Judea were in fact mostly Hebrew Edomites, descended from Israel’s brother, Esau. And the Samaritans (Sepharvaim) somehow became “Sephardic Jews”. These Jews connived and manipulated behind the scenes starting with the murder of Alexander ca. 323 BCE. They were behind the Ptolemies, the Seleucids, Rome, and every other hegemonic power that later emerged. Much later, ca. 700-800 CE, a white Caucasian people settled between the Caspian an Black Seas, the Khazar, were converted to “Judaism”, later becoming known as Ashkenazi or Khazar Jews. They now constitute 80-90% of the Jews of today, and have no seedline connection to Israel, except whatever is due to in-mixing (e.g. due to Levite priests involved in the original “conversion”). The Sephardic Jews likewise are not Israelite, except for some degree of in-mixing due to proximity with Israelites over a long period. The Hebrew Edomite Jews are the only ones with claim to descent from Abraham. It is their seed that is the source of the Negro look (darker skin, woolly-ish hair) that some Jews have. Further to prophecy, they became the “niggers” of Jewry, and occupy subordinate position to the Khazar Jews, who are Satan’s main vehicle for unleashing wickedness on the world. They have supplanted the Hebrew Edomites, and are partakers of Esau’s blessing of dominion, but exercising their power from behind the scenes, manipulating the U.S. and Britain and NATO, as the Edomite and Sephardic Jews manipulated the earlier hegemonic powers under this the Fourth Kingdom now coming to its end. Their prophesied ultimate end — Khazar Jew, Sephardic Jew, and Edomite Jew — is the lake of fire.

        14) The world today is full of Abraham’s seed. The scattered Israelites are all over, scattered to the four corners of the earth. We the Negro slave descendants of the trans-Atlantic slave trade, are prime among them, being true bloodline descendants of Jacob, via Judah (American Negroes), Benjamin (West Indian Negroes), and Levi (Haitian Negroes). Many European tribes are also Israelite in origin, notably the Irish (Tautha da Danaan — Tribe of Dan) along with the Scan-DAN-avians, Basques, Celts, etc. They turned white in the same manner as Gehazi (see the story at 2 Kings, chap. 5). The native Hawaiians are a scattered Israelite people, as are some “Native Americans” and Amerindian tribes. Some native Filipinos are Israelite also. Etc. And of course Africa is full of Hebrew Israelites, e.g. the Lemba (Levites), Igbo, Zulu (Gad and Judah), Yoruba, among many, many others. There are Hebrew Ishmaelites also, e.g. northern Sudan, Zanzibar, who will face judgment for their enslavement of Hebrew Israelites. And there are Hebrew Edomites also, e.g. the Ashanti, who have apologized for, and offered reparation, for their role in the slave trade.

        15) All that to say, Arabs are in no useful sense, Jews. Some of them are Hebrew Ishmaelites. But to call them “Jews” would would be incorrect, certainly as to the 80-90% “Jews” who are Khazar people descended from Japheth, with no essential bloodline connection to Abraham. It is also untrue as to the Sephardic Jews who likewise have no seedline connection to Abraham. It will be partially true only as to the Hebrew Edomites, who today are the “niggers” of Judaism. The common patriarch in that case would be Abraham, but it would not be Judah, nor Israel.

        Now, having said all that, the uselessness of DNA testing to determine ancestry should be apparent. If all it can tell you is that you have “Middle Eastern” heritage, how useful is that? In prophetic terms, given what is to come, one needs to know in specific whether one is Israelite, or Ishmaelite, or Edomite, or none of the above. Those who never lost identity already know. It is really only those who have lost their identity (the Negro more than any other) who have anything to find out. Checking the prophetic fit to Scripture will let us know far more reliably who we are than any DNA test. Yahweh set it up that way. If you are Ishmaelite, your obligations will flow out of Islam and the Koran. If you are Israelite, your obligations will flow out of the Book of Yahweh, most especially Torah. The law of Moses (Torah) is not Judaism, by the way, which follows Talmud over Torah, the teachings of man over those of the Most High. At the time of judgment, we the true Hebrew Israelites will have no excuse. You cannot say then, oh I didn’t know, otherwise I would have kept the sabbath, and not eaten pork, etc. Ignorance is no excuse before the Law, and Yahweh has set it up that you can’t even claim that. He set it up that every Israelite household, if it owns only one book, it will be the Bible. His word is always nigh. It is for us to read, and to study. It is the best prophylactic against Satanic deceit in all its seductive and insidious forms.

        Shalom.

        “I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.” (Revelation 2:9)

        • Thank you Yoruba Israelite for your post, but whenI took a DNA test, my matches were confirmed for both Jewish and Arabic tribes and a Jewish rabbi who has a background in genetics confirmed my background, so I will defer to his judgement.

          Thank you for your input though.

  • Trinamerican:

    This is an important matter of principle, and I address it from that angle only; I do not seek to tell you what is your identity, or what it isn’t.

    I am merely pointing out that which is unarguable as a matter of fact and logic: one cannot have two fathers. You cannot, both, have Ishmael as a distant forefather, and Judah. It is either Ishmael, Judah, or none of the above. The possibilities are mutually exclusive. That is the first point.

    If your “Jewish” rabbi is asserting paternal bloodline descent from Judah as his definition of what constitutes being “Jewish”, then my question would be, who constituted the “Jewish” reference sample? On what basis may it be claimed that they (those in the reference sample) are descended from Judah? That would be my second point.

    My contention, based in Scripture, is that those who today call themselves “Jews” are NOT blood-line descended from Judah. Rather, at best, some of them are descended from Abraham via Esau (Edomite Jews), and therefore are not of the seed either of Judah or Jacob (i.e. Israel). And worse, the vast majority (the Khazar Jews) have no paternal connection to Abraham at all, neither via Judah, Jacob, nor Isaac. Rather they are of the seed of Japheth via Togarmah. I repeat Revelation 2:9: “… I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.”

    Therefore, I would challenge the “Jewish” rabbi to prove both his paternal-line connection to Judah, and that of his reference sample. Scripture, after all, requires us to “prove all things.”

    One way would be by spiritual means. For example, there is the story told at Nehemiah 7:63-65 where certain of the returnees from Babylon, children of Barzillai, were put from the priesthood. They claimed Levitical descent, but by marriage, i.e. by the female line. That point is interesting by itself, namely that bloodline descent must be by the paternal line. But the other point I want to make in this context is rather that their independent paternal claim could be re-considered and established, in the absence of genealogical record, when “there stood up a priest with Urim and Thummim.” (Nehemiah 7:65). Does your “Jewish” rabbi claim to stand up with Urim and Thummim, and is that the basis on which you defer to his finding that you are “Jewish”?

    I ask the question as a point of principle, but I already know the answer, because if he were properly addressing the question, he could not pronounce a finding that you are, both, “Jewish” and Arab, in the sense of bloodline paternal descent. And if he had U&T, he would not need DNA analysis.

    A second way is by not DNA matching, rather by prophecy-matching. This is the means given us by Yahweh. For he said the curses he put upon us would be, among others, for a sign and a wonder: “And they (the curses)shall be upon thee for a sign and for a wonder, and upon thy seed for ever” (Deuteronomy 28:46). The so-called Jews do not match the signs that Yahweh said the true Israelites would match. It’s not even close. Even their claimed “six million” Holocaust is a fabricated lie (google “Robert Faurisson”). In any case it cannot compare with 400 years of captivity and the tens of millions who perished in the Middle Passage. Moreover they are not the ones “hid in prison houses” (Isaiah 42:22), rather the ones who are the self-proclaimed Masters of the Universe. They are enjoying the temporary blessing promised Esau (Genesis 49:39-40), soon to be ended and followed by the eternal blessing promised Jacob (Genesis 49:28-29). There is a long lecture here, which I will omit. But the short of it is that the “Jewish” people do not match the prophecies that would identify true Israel. They fail the prohecy-DNA test, if you will. To apply this test, you do not need a priest to stand up with U&T, rather only to study the Book of Yahweh, and then look around to see “who the cap fits”, and who it certainly doesn’t.

    I now make a third point, as it pertains to DNA matching. I don’t have a problem per se with DNA science, qua science. (I haven’t studied it, mind, but I grant its validity, under its terms, for the sake of argument.) But I do know, and it is unarguable, the garbage-in, garbage-out, principle. If you use the wrong reference sample, then DNA matching is going to give you a wrong result. And it is no fault of DNA science. It is merely a mis-application of it. So this is my problem. When you have a reference sample that is not proven to have the characteristic for which you are testing (in this case, bloodline paternal descent from Judah, or Jacob), you have a case of assuming that which rather should be proven. In logic, this is known as the fallacy of “begging the question”, or “petitio principii”. This is the problem here that I see. You have a DNA match with more or less arbitrarily drawn (but satisfying some claimed less than 100% “confidence level” properties) statistical “clusters”, associated with reference samples comprising variously mixed grab-bags of various “Middle Eastern” types. It is only in some such latter sense that you could be both “Jewish” and Arab.

    Finally, and again, my point is not to presume to tell you what is your identity or heritage. It is rather only to address the much broader points of principle raised by the claim that you have made, and the basis you have given. These broader points of principle are vital to understand as we are now in the time of Apocalypse, or Revelation, when all lies will be exposed, and the truth that will make us free, revealed.

    Shalom.

    • Shalom Yoruba Israelite,

      Well you are right that most Ashkenazi Jews are not from the House of Israel but there are some who are by virtue of their intermixing with the Israelite Kohanim who taught the Khazar people our traditions, thus our DNA was passed on to some of the people from this European tribe. Thus, there are some Ashkenazi Jews, not all, who are from the House of Israel.

      Similarly, not everyone who calls themselves Arab or practices Islam is necessarily Arab. The majority of the images one sees on the TV screen, are those of the descendants of the Ottoman Turks who ruled the Middle East for such a long time. This fact was explained to me by the Levitical Kohan (You are right, the term “Jew” is not entirely accurate). Ethnically pure Arab-Israelites (or Mizrahim) typically look like the Kohan who interpreted my results for me and myself, i.e. dark-brown to very dark skin with kinky hair (the levitical kohan has a dreadlocked style).

      The Kohan further went on to explain that since Isaac and Ishmael, as you also correctly pointed out, both have a common father in Abraham and thus, their DNA would be very similar, since they are basically half-brothers. The ethnic variation would come in by virtue of the fact that they had separate mothers, but that Abrahamic seed would make them virtually indistinguishable. Of course, as Israelites spread the Beauty of the Way to other peoples, they sometimes intermingled with the populations and spread their seed. Thus, the Europeans with ties to ancient Israelites would always be traced back to the non-European tribes from which their forefathers came.

      As an example, it has been argued that Adolf Hitler, the ultimate Israelite hater, in fact had Israelite ancestry himself

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/world-war-2/7961211/Hitler-had-Jewish-and-African-roots-DNA-tests-show.html

      If you read the link I provided you notice that the headline links him to “Jewish” and North African populations from Morocco, Tunisia and Algeria. Of course, that is not surprising given the mixed Arab-Turk and Arab-Persian populations in North Africa.

      Thus, that is why when I took the DNA test my DNA signature had strong matches to Arab samples from Sudan (since many Sudanese are half-Arab, Yemen, Oman, the United Arab Emirates and so on and do forth. I also had strong matches with the existing Semitic populations in Israel (both Ishmaelite and Israelite). Contrary to popular belief, there are still indigenous dark-skinned Arabic populations in the Middle East, which the racist mainstream media has labelled as descendants from the Arab Slave Trade (i.e. the Ottoman Turk Slave Trade). The Ottomans have been just as duplicitous as their Ashkenazi counterparts and have succeeded in usurping the Arab ethnicity from my people.

      For more info on the DNA testing company, here is the link:

      http://www.dnatribes.com/

      Thus, this is why my prolonged fierce debate with Mamoo occurred because I am tired of the Zionists misrepresenting the culture of my ancestors and sowing the seeds of hatred and discord in the Middle East with their white supremacist mindset. The truth must come to light.

    • Pardon the interruption; but I’d like to your analysis of Isaiah 18: 1-7. I’ve read many commentaries but none have resonated as truth. Seeing as you present yourself as a biblical expert I’d appreciate your contribution; would you mind?

      • karibkween:

        I’d like to your analysis of Isaiah 18: 1-7. I’ve read many commentaries but none have resonated as truth. Seeing as you present yourself as a biblical expert I’d appreciate your contribution; would you mind?

        Here is the breakdown of Isaiah 18:1-7.

        Verse 1. “Woe to the land shadowing with wings, which is beyond the rivers of Ethiopia:”

        This establishes place. The land “beyond the rivers of Ethiopia” is inner Africa, called “Pathros” elsewhere in scripture.

        The imagery “shadowing with wings” means “over-shadowed by wings”, suggesting the circling vultures, waiting to pick apart a carcase.

        This ties in with the prophecy concerning Egypt: “And I will bring again the captivity of Egypt, and will cause them to return into the land of Pathros, into the land of their habitation; and they shall be there a base kingdom.” (Ezekiel 29:14). So the stage is set that Africa, as a whole, will be as a base kingdom: the Hamitic host, together with the Yahoodee (Negro) refugees from the land of Israel.

        Verse 2: “That sendeth ambassadors by the sea, even in vessels of bulrushes upon the waters, saying, Go, ye swift messengers, to a nation scattered and peeled, to a people terrible from their beginning hitherto; a nation meted out and trodden down, whose land the rivers have spoiled!”

        Remember the Kontiki expedition? Remember Ivan van Sertima’s “They Came before Columbus”? Then you will know to what this refers. This is trans-Atlantic travel by African explorers. The Olmec were such “ambassadors by the sea”.

        Verse 3: “All ye inhabitants of the world, and dwellers on the earth, see ye, when he lifteth up an ensign on the mountains; and when he bloweth a trumpet, hear ye.”

        The prophecy (yet to be fulfilled) is that scattered Israel will rise again (“lifteth up an ensign on the mountains”). The world is warned to take note when the matter is broadcast.

        Re those that “dwell on the earth”, recall: “And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.” (Revelation 13:8). This distinguishes the earth-dwellers who are in thrall to Babylon system, and who will be deceived by the anti-Christ; from those written in the book of life, who will not be deceived.

        And also: “He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.” (Revelation 3:5).

        So there are earth-dwellers who are not written in the book of Life. And among those who are written in the book, unless we get right with Yahweh, we stand to be blotted out.

        In that case: “And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.” (Revelation 20:15).

        Verse 4: “For so Yahweh said unto me, I will take my rest, and I will consider in my dwelling place like a clear heat upon herbs, and like a cloud of dew in the heat of harvest.”

        “Consider in my dwelling place” here means “look down from [heaven].”

        “Like a clear heat upon herbs” suggests the imagery of clear sunshine.

        “Like a cloud of dew in the heat of harvest” suggests “cocoa in the sun”, meaning we would be looking out for unwelcome rain. It also means to say God is remote, up in the sky.

        So all in all, the imagery here conveys the idea that Yahweh will withdraw from us, and be a wrathful father chastising a wayward son. This is in the nature of punishment for our disobedience.

        This alludes to the prophesied curses (Deuteronomy 28:15-68, notably 64; Leviticus 26; elsewhere) that we would suffer.

        Verse 5: “For afore the harvest, when the bud is perfect, and the sour grape is ripening in the flower, he shall both cut off the sprigs with pruning hooks, and take away and cut down the branches.”

        This is further imagery of the curses we would be put under. Elsewhere in scripture there is reference to “furnace of affliction” (Isaiah 48:10), “earth of iron and heaven of brass” (Deuteronomy 28:23) and such like. In other words, hard times.

        Verse 6: “They shall be left together unto the fowls of the mountains, and to the beasts of the earth: and the fowls shall summer upon them, and all the beasts of the earth shall winter upon them.”

        Scramble for Africa. More hard times. This prophecy has been fulfilled. And is ongoing. Note that the colonial powers were likened unto fowls and beasts. Who didn’t have eagles on their crests, had lions, bears and such.

        Verse 7: “In that time shall the present be brought unto Yahweh of hosts of a people scattered and peeled, and from a people terrible from their beginning hitherto; a nation meted out and trodden under foot, whose lanthed the rivers have spoiled, to the place of the name of Yahweh of hosts, the mount Zion.”

        This is the prophecy of the re-gathering, which is yet to be fulfilled.

        The Zionist state of Israel is not it. They are they “that say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan” (Revelation 2:9).

        The “present to be brought unto Yahweh” are the regathered Israelites. Recall: “And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto Yahweh out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith Yahweh, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of Yahweh.” (Isaiah 66:20)

        The people “terrible from their beginning hitherto” are the people who enslaved and oppressed the scattered Israelites. The U.S. (“from their beginning hitherto”) is specifically referred to, but the colonial powers also, more generally.

        But the specific reference to the U.S. continues with “a nation meted out and trodden under foot, whose land the rivers have spoiled”. This should rather read, “a nation powerful and treading down, whose land the rivers divide”. This suggests an Act of God that will split America up the middle, and turn the Mississippi into a sea, all the way up to the Great Lakes or near to. As to this last, I have been so guided. Hear or forebear.

        So the prophetic references here are *not* to the so-called Jews, the impostors and stealers of Israelite identity, rather the Negro slave descendants of the West, and the Negroes scattered all over Africa, not however including the Hamites, nor Hebrew Ishmaelites, nor Hebrew Edomites.

        As a footnote, my Study Bible (KJB, Nelson) puts a wrong and misleading heading to this chapter: “A prophecy concerning Ethiopia”. It is not. It is a prophecy concerning the scattered Israelites, beyond the rivers of Ethiopia. As long as the Xtian gentiles do not understand that we the Negroes are the scattered Israelites of the core tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi, they will not understand scripture, the prophetic keys will be closed to them, and they will lead our Israelite brethren into a date with the lake of fire.

        I hope that is helpful.

        Shalom.

        • I don’t think I’m clear on your analysis of this: “Go, ye swift messengers, to a nation scattered and peeled, to a people terrible from their beginning hitherto; a nation meted out and trodden down, whose land the rivers have spoiled!”

          • karibkween:

            I don’t think I’m clear on your analysis of this: “Go, ye swift messengers, to a nation scattered and peeled, to a people terrible from their beginning hitherto; a nation meted out and trodden down, whose land the rivers have spoiled!”

            Two peoples are described to which the messengers went across the sea.

            One set of people are “scattered and peeled”. These are fellow Israelites, various Amerindian and native American tribes. These were from among the 10 northern tribes, scattered much earlier by the Assyrians ca. 740-720 BCE.

            The story is told in the book of Esdras of how some of them made it to a land in which previously never man dwelt — Arsareth. This is America.

            2 Esdras 13:40 Those are the ten tribes, which were carried away prisoners out of their own land in the time of Osea the king, whom Salmanasar the king of Assyria led away captive, and he carried them over the waters, and so came they into another land.
            2 Esdras 13:41 But they took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt,
            2 Esdras 13:42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land.
            2 Esdras 13:43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river.
            2 Esdras 13:44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over.
            2 Esdras 13:45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth.

            The Taino of the Greater Antilles were an Israelite people. Ephraim ended up in Boricua (Puerto Rico). Simeon in Hispaniola. Dan in Cuba. Issachar in Mexico and Central America. Reuben in Florida (Seminoles). Gad in Eastern U.S. including as far south and west as Louisiana (the Washitaw). Some of the black people in Louisiana stoutly maintain the tradition that they are indigenous, and never came over in slave ships.

            The Arawak were partially Israelite (Manasseh and Benjamin I am guided), but not the Carib. (The Benjamites happened to be among those carted off with the northern tribes, though the bulk of Benjamin belonged to the southern tribes). Benjamites later came also to the Bahamas, West Indies, and the southern U.S., as part of the trans-Atlantic slave trade.

            Etc.

            The other people to whom the messengers are sent are: “a people terrible from their beginning hitherto; a nation meted out and trodden down, whose land the rivers have spoiled!” This we identified earlier to be the U.S. — a nation powerful and treading down — in the breakdown of verse 7.

            The reference to “terrible from the beginning hitherto” is a reference to the death, destruction, and enslavement they brought with them from the beginning. It wasn’t long before the welcoming so-called “Indians” around Plymouth Rock were killed, and their land stolen. And later, the U.S. broke every single treaty (over 300) they made with the other “Indians”. As to the so-called “Negro” Israelite victims of the slave trade, the original Constitution of the U.S. protected slavery and the slave trade. Hence the U.S. fits the prophecy as being “terrible from the beginning hitherto.”

            Let me also add that the messengers were sent to warn. Yahweh does nothing without first sending his servants the prophets. So the messengers were sent both to the Israelites (the so-called Indians) and to the colonizers (the so-called Americans). They were of course promptly ignored.

            I hope this clarifies the matter.

            Shalom.

        • thanx for the clarity.

  • Trinamerican:

    There is much of what you say with which I do not disagree. I will respond only where I find I differ somewhat.

    1)

    Thus, there are some Ashkenazi Jews, not all, who are from the House of Israel.

    There are some, very few, who carry Israelite bloodline, mostly Levite, rather than Judahite, because, as you say, of the in-mixing of priestly seed from those who converted them.

    However, here is the principle to understand: one can be bloodline Israelite, yet not belong to the house of Israel. And conversely, one can be of the house of Israel, yet not be bloodline Israelite.

    The stranger may graft himself in with the house of Israel by physical mixing — intermarriage and siring of children. Note that it is not sufficient merely to espouse some belief or creed. It must be a physical mixing in, and walking the walk of the Israelite. The stranger in that way becomes a *partaker* of the destiny of the house of Israel. That is why I say that *all* the Negro slave descendants of the Caribbean and North America are of the house of Israel, and most are bloodline. That would include Barack Obama, but only courtesy Michelle. On the other hand… (off-topic, let me not go there…)

    This principle works the other way too. The bloodline Israelite who physically joins himself in with another people, becomes a partaker of their destiny. Therefore, notwithstanding bloodline Israelite seed present from the original Levite in-mixing with the Khazar and Sephardic “Jews”, the Kohanim of Judaism have physically abandoned the house of Israel, and entered into the house of “them which say they are Jews and are not”.

    There is a three-fold apostasy.

    One is that Levitical priests were prohibited from out-marriage, period. Therefore, if they have in-mixed with Khazars and Sephardim, their sons do not automatically inherit the right to priesthood.

    The second is that there are rules regarding the offspring of out-marriage. They in general are barred from entering the “congregation” of Israel unto the third generation. In the case of out-marriage to Moabites and Ammonites, the rule was 10 generations. And there was yet another rule in the case of the children of Canaan. What this means is that to get back into the fold, the mixed offspring would have to marry back in with true Israelite women.

    Now, to the extent that did not happen with the mixed offspring of bloodline Levites with Khazars and Sephardim, they (the offspring) may not claim to be of the congregation of Israel. Nor indeed may they claim even to be of the house of Israel, despite having bloodline connection.

    The third apostasy is idolatry. For “Judaism” is not Torah. Talmudic Judaism is so far removed from Torah as to invite Yeshua’s condemnation delivered through John the Revelator: they are “of the synagogue of Satan.” (Revelation 2:9). Therefore, the followers of Judaism, including the proselytizing Levite priests who “converted” the Khazar and Sephardic “Jews”, have placed themselves outside the fold of both the congregation and the house of Israel.

    We the true Israelites must stay very clear of Judaism. Yahweh admonished us, through Moses, to neither add to nor take away from the Law that was handed down: “Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of Yahweh your God which I command you.” (Deuteronomy 4:2). Therefore Talmudic Judaism must be avoided as the Satanic creation that it is.

    Talmudic Judaism grew out of Pharisaism. (So say the Talmudic Jews themselves, but I don’t have the reference right to hand.) The Pharisees had already twisted the law of Moses beyond recognition by the time of Yeshua’s ministry. Hence his condemnation of the Pharisees, and in turn their condemnation of him.

    Xtianity turned the condemnation of Pharisaism into condemnation of the “Jews”, and by extension the law of Moses, which they wrongly think Yeshua “nailed to the cross”, making it now of none-effect. They are right to condemn Pharisaic Judaism. But they are wrong, very wrong, to condemn the law of Moses.

    The gentile Xtians are under no covenant obligations until they graft themselves physically into the house of true Israel. But true Israelites, whether of the blood or of the house, and whether they know their status in this respect or not, remain under all the covenant obligations of Moses, including for example sabbath-keeping, circumcision, and the prohibition against swine and other unclean foods. All these covenant obligations, and more, apply to the Negro slave descendants of the West.

    2)

    it has been argued that Adolf Hitler, the ultimate Israelite hater, in fact had Israelite ancestry himself

    Not proved, in my opinion. But I take the general point regarding E1b1b1 haplotype. This haplotype however has not been narrowed down to the seedline of Jacob. Too besides, Hitler hated the “Jews”, not the Israelites. And for good reason.

    3)

    I also had strong matches with the existing Semitic populations in Israel (both Ishmaelite and Israelite).

    I looked at the DNA website you cited, and the methodology underlying the DNA testing that they offer. It is good for something, I suppose, but it is not fit for the present purpose of distinguishing the Israelite from the non-Israelite.

    It doesn’t even try. That is why you cannot, from the analysis given you, claim to have “proof” that you are “Jewish”, let alone Israelite. And that is why you are left with the absurdity of being told you are both Arab and Jew. But they don’t focus narrowly on the Y-chromosome, which is what is necessary to establish paternal line.

    Even if they did, there would be the problem of the reference sample. The world for the most part still thinks, wrongly, that the “Jewish” people are Israelite. Therefore the reference samples will be wrong. I looked briefly at some of the on-line literature on the “Cohen Modal Haplotype”, and I can see the confusion arising from a false premise, maintained despite all the evidence right there in their faces to the contrary. Neither the Khazars nor the Sephardic Jews are Israelites of the blood. The test of prophecy proves it beyond all doubt. Their results only prove some little Levite admixture, when compared, for example with such as the Lemba people of South Africa,, who have much more of what the Jews assert is their claim to Levi and therefore Jacob. But that’s another topic and another discussion.

    Shalom.

    • Thank you for your perspective.

      Shalom.

      • Trinamerican:

        Thank you for your perspective.

        Thank you for the exchange, and for sharing.

        I’m here to bring knowledge and understanding. I wouldn’t waste my time, or yours for that matter, merely giving a “perspective”. I censor myself when I find myself giving what is mere speculation, or opinion. And if I do give speculation I’ll make that clear. That is why I take the trouble I do to cite or quote sources, so the reader so inclined could go check for themselves. This is a scholarly discipline, also habit, which I try to uphold even on this informal board.

        Nevertheless, it is true that you may hear or forebear.

        Shalom.

        PS. In cold print the above may sound testier than I feel. When I say hear or forebear, I mean it in the dispassionate way of someone doing his job.

  • My apologies. I am perhaps guilty of a poor word choice because I wrote my last post fairly quickly. I meant to say thank you for your analysis.

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