By Linda E. Edwards
November 14, 2006
According to headlines in the major dailies, and substantiated in the accompanying articles of Nov.12, 2006; people of Indo-Trinidadian descent are besieging the visiting Vice-president of India for relief from the discrimination suffered daily in Trinidad and Tobago at the hands of the Afro-Caribbean and other people. This letter is in response to those pleas.
To: Her Excellency Bhairoon Singh Shekhawat
Vice President of India
Government of India:
Madame:
On your return to India, please request of your Prime Minister, Manmohan Singh, that he dispatch Indian passenger ships, (with Indian Navy escorts to prevent piracy in the Indian Ocean) to Trinidad and Tobago to offer immediate repatriation to all “Indians” who are not Trinidadians, and who have suffered in this country as a beleaguered minority for more than one hundred and fifty years. It would of course be necessary for the Navy ships to wait outside the territorial limits of Trinidad and Tobago’s waters (12 miles) which means they cannot come into the Gulf of Paria, but could wait off the North Coast. It would also be necessary to seek the permission of the Colossus to the North, who calls itself the world’s greatest democracy, never mind that more Indians vote freely in elections than their entire population. This colossus regards the Caribbean Sea as its private lake, so if permission is not sought for the Navy Escorts, their being in the Caribbean could be seen as a hostile act, with bad consequences, if shooting starts, for all the innocent people who have never done India or that other Big Power any harm.
It will not be necessary to evacuate every Indo-Trinidadian. Some have integrated into the society. We had one who recently passed on, The late Excellency Noor Hassanali who was the president of the republic for five years. His wife will most likely stay, but you should ask her. All the others who claim to be “Indian” and not Trinidadian or Tobagonian, should be evacuated to their original villages, if they have a record of where they came from. Many could be settled in Kerala which is still mostly agricultural, and which has had a long contact with Christianity, but those who are most hostile to faiths other than Hindutva should be settled, at the pleasure of the government in those underpopulated central parts of the Deccan. The major cities of Mumbai and others may be too crowded already, and immigrants do not usually do well in big cities. They are likelier, from my studies, to do better in small towns and rural areas.
For more than one hundred and fifty years, these people have lived in Trinidad and Tobago, and reached the highest level of achievement that any can reach- in the Arts- the Nobel Prize For Literature, 2001; in the judiciary- Chief Justice of the High Court, in Business – now beleaguered criminals some of them, and politics- leader of the Opposition and Prime Minister. Despite this, they are a discontented people, forever trying to invite foreign governments- like yours, to interfere in the politics of Trinidad and Tobago, and have harmed the country internationally.
Specifics: About twenty years ago, Trinidad and Tobago enjoyed great relations with Canada. Trinbagonians could migrate there easily, and prosper. That was until a few Indo-Trinis went there on visitors’ visas and claimed to be refugees fleeing persecution.
At first, the Government of Canada “rescued” them, gave then the statutory allowance for refugees and helped them resettle When word got back to TnT that they were given living allowances and housing, a flood of “Indians” from TnT besieged Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal, as well as Vancouver. This forced the Government of Canada to revise its policy of immigration from Trinidad. Now the line waiting for visas to visit relatives in Canada is almost as long as the one outside the American Embassy- where they stand in the sun for hours like cattle waiting to be herded somewhere, in a line reaching around the block. Trinidadians of other descents went to Canada and integrated into the society, becoming educators at all three level, engineers, businessmen, actors. Some “Indians” from Trinidad and Tobago did not integrate but kept their wife murdering and drug dealing ways, increasing the crime rate exponentially in Canada’s major cities. Although the Government of Canada does not generally keep statistics based on race or country of origin, it should be easy for your computer whiz kids to gather the information to back what I say.
Recently, some Indian businessmen were treated badly on an international flight, for being loud and drunk. Dutch officials explained that they thought they were from Trinidad. That says it all!
Every time an Indian official visits Trinidad and Tobago, The “Indians” in Trinidad redefine themselves as a separate people from the “others”. I first saw this phenomenon in the 1960’s when your late Prime Minister Indira Gandhi visited Trinidad. While no one faulted the waving of Indian flags, we had waved enough British flags when out colonial masters came visiting, including on honeymoon trips, many “other” Trinidadians were disturbed at the attitude of separateness that the “Indians” of Trinidad showed. This has been repeated with each visit of an Indian dignitary, including various swamis and religious teachers. Afro-Trinidadiand do not do this when presidents of African republics come visiting. News coverage of the visits of Thabo Mbeki of South Africa and Olusegun Abasanjo of Nigeria could prove this. Racial slurs and ridicule were offered to the Most Rev. Desmond Tutu of South Africa, when he came visiting in 1987. His name was compared to an Indian word for shit, by some amused “Indians”. No radio report can claim that any swami or guru was offered such insults by “other” Trinbagonians.
Whenever someone in Trinidad and Tobago of Indian ancestry commits a crime, the race card is raised to try to affect the course of justice. This is true even in cases of wife murder, which is prevalent in that community. You may be aware since your government doubtless monitors such things, that the former Chief Justice is accused of trying to pervert the course of justice by interfering in matters that were to appear before magistrates and junior judges who report to him. That matter has now reached the Privy Council of England, where these former colonials believe they could get justice, above the justice of Trinidad and Tobago. India is a republic within the British Commonwealth. Do all of your big cases go to the British Privy Council also, or is it that the “Indians” in Trinidad and Tobago cannot bear to be adjudged by someone who is not Indian unless that person is a White Massa from our colonial past? Had these been citizens of India, would not your government regard them as being disloyal to the state and thus guilty of possibly traitorous conduct?
You may well ask, Madame, what the government and people of Trinidad and Tobago done to ameliorate the conditions of the former indentures?
I invite you to look at our calendar of national holidays. You would see three devoted to Indian celebrations, Divali, Eid Ul Fitr and Indian Arrival Day. I invite you to examine our schools that are not “Indian” schools, and you would see Indian children integrated into all of them. The reverse is not true of other children attending “Indian” schools. There are a few. You should interview some of them before sending those ships.
A sports team is appointed: The Soca Warriors- no “Indian” complains, soccer is not their thing, cricket is. The team goes to the world cup, and without winning a single goal distinguishes itself for our country and are given a monetary reward. Immediately the complaining starts that there are no Indians on the team. Immediately questions are asked why not give it to cricketers too? Our internationally recognized white artistes and sportsmen, also begin questioning and agitating, where once there was peace.
Our highest national award was removed from consideration this year, based on a lawsuit filed by “Indians” that it was a Christian award designed to promote the Christian religion. The award was instituted at Independence based on the name of the country. This year, we gave no awards.
Serious minded and concerned Trinidad and Tobago Citizens are coming to the conclusion that there is no abiding these people. They will not be satisfied, no matter what. Many have never integrated into the society, and never will and apparently are proud of that.
Now we are all a nation of immigrants, all brought there under inhumane conditions by the former British Raj, but some wear they complaints on their sleeves, as the beggars at the temple doors who hold up their scars for the world to see.
It is time Trinidad and Tobago forges ahead building one society on the prosperity of our oil and gas finds, the education of our people and our respect for international law. It is time we build one society that lives up to our national anthem- “Every Creed and Race Finds an Equal Place; and May God Bless Our Nation” and to our motto: Discipline, Production and Tolerance. This tolerance should not be extended to those who make traitorous statements to foreign governments and so damage our democracy.
So Madame, I plead with you, send ships to reverse the journey across the Kali Pani. Take the Indians home to their ancestral villages, and leave the Trinbagonians to enjoy a multi-racial society in the Southern Caribbean that we boast of as being a model of all people dwelling together in unity. They could be asked to draw up their own list. Remember Uganda and Kenya? Nothing was learned apparently, by the “Indians” who were living there either.
This letter has been years in the making, and I do not ask this of you lightly. I do not represent any government office, nor party. I am simply an educated Trinbagonian who has come to the sad realization that in some societies, divorce papers for ethnic groups are a necessity. Years ago, I came to the same realization in my personal life, and took the necessary steps.
Please launch Operation Rescue for all the “Indians” in Trinidad and Tobago at once. They are not going to Canada, the US or Britain, they are to be repatriated “Home” to India. All Trinbagonians will thank you. I thank you in advance.
Yours sincerely,
Linda E. Edwards
Nov. 12, 2006
Ms. Edwards I could not agree with you more! most ppl walk about with a ‘chip on their shoulder’ about something, but these these ‘trini’ indians have a ‘two by four’ on their shoulders about everything! Mind you all their complaints will stop immediately if an Indian is elected as prime minister overnight, even if he does nothing for them! I really wish that ship can be sent from India & take every single one of them of T&T soil, my God they are a miserable ppl with their ‘whining & complaints’ I want them to list to me ‘how. where & when’ they have been persecuted in this Country! I have been in a Maxi in t’dad visiting & under the ‘guise’ of being drunk have to put up with insults & racial slurs hurled at my head & others of afro trini descent, the driver being indian was so embarassed he finally stop the bus & let them out. Believe me thay would not try that in the USA, drunk or not they would have been killed, but they do get away with it in T’dad. I can go on & on, but really are they worth it, I think not!!
This is an excellent analysis and reveals bias. I’ve read a lot of Ms. Edwards colums, but I can’t say that I like this one at all. It is a retort that should have stayed in her mind and never written. This brings us no closer to unity and in fact displays arrogance and a lack of sensitivity. It is not encouraging at all – it is madness.
Ms Edwards has shown that she is just as ignorant as the ones she is complaining about by writing this letter. Her facts are so incorrect from the very start. She addressed the Vice Presidents as Madam when he is a man.- Was it meant as an insult or a display of her ignorance? Most indians who came to Trinidad were not from Kerela, “Tu Tu” is not an indian/hindi word for sh*t as she so matter-of-factly said. This list of inacurracies goes on.
I agree that no Trinidadian has a legal right to ask the Indian government to step in on the affairs of a soverign nation and the Vice President rightly acknowledged that. India also did so in the past as when Natives attacked people of indian descent in Fiji and in Uganda. The Indian gov’t did not interfere but were on standby to take in refugees.
But in this letter Ms Edwards sounds even more racist than the people she is complaining about. Things she complains about such as the renaming of the Trinity Cross is somthing that more foward thinking countries would applaud. Look at the UK, Canada, USA…do they have any religious national awards?
I agree with you that persons who think India is better than Trinidad should go back and they are free to do so. The Indian gov’t actually offers dual citizenship to Trinidadians who want to work or do business in India.
I have no doubt that Ms Edwards as I have been insensed by the request for the Indian gov’t to intervene because it is such a stupid request. I do not know what was actually said – I am going by what I read in one of the daily papers (which we all know how reliable they are) – but if the report is correct, the people who made the request have lost a lot of face among the intelligent population of Trinidad- just as Ms Edwards is displaying her ignorance in this letter.
I agree with Ms Edwards. everytime something happens and it does not go their way, they start talking about race. they use it conveniently. When a crime happens the first thing they want to see if a person of the Afro race do the crime and then they comment. when it’s the other way around no comments or very brief. they are the ones that are racial. to miss Tracy Johnson, you dont agree with Ms Edwards comment. do you agree with the one the Gopio is always making. complaining to the Vice President of India. India have they own problems they cannot solve theirs. they have their own discrimination to deal with. everything is India is about class. what can India do for the Indians in Trinidad? they need to stop playing the race card for everthing in Trinidad. deal with people as Trinidadians. we are not the ones to bring unity. we have done that already. they need to come clean now.
Ms. Edwards,
It is regrettable that you had to resort to your personal observations in the manner in which you did. However, there are instances in which our actions do not accurately reflect the way we feel and perhaps the incident that prompted your response could have been one of them. I take the liberty to quote scripture in an attempt to realize the promises of our constitution. “Every man hath a fault, he who has no fault is in himself a fault because he hath no fault”. Peace.
All I have to say is, one small group of people do not speak for the whole. No one can deny that in Trinidad (and the world) there are no racist people. Even some of the comments reflect that they are racist …”kill?” and statements like, “we are not the ones to bring unity. we have done that already,” show this “we” vs “them” attitude. This makes me scared because too many Trinis are racists and do not even realise it.
Does every indian agree with what Gopio does? I think not. Does every african agree with what Selwyn Cudjo says? I think not. What Ms. Edwards has done here (I’ll give her the benefit and excuse her since she may have wrote this atricle while very empassioned) is do the most racist thing anyone can do and that’s brand an entire group of people as the same.
indian needs to unify and conquer, and not blend in to mix races because indians in india don’t
To balty; Ms Edwards specifically stated in her second paragraph she meant the ‘indians’ that do not consider themselves Trinidadians, but of course you will only ‘see & hear’ what you want, therefore you are quick to call her a racist ? surely you jest !
See this stupidness…Shiva Ramsubhag, comments like that are what have Trinidad the way is it with regards to race relations. One person says something to offend and the immediated response is to fight fire with fire. Also, Shiva, you show that you know nothing about India. Indians are a product of many races. The Dravidians (dark skinned and wavy hair), the Aryans (White skinned), the Mongols, Greeks, Huns, Persians all who have mixed to give the modern day indian.
Maureen, I read both your and Balty’s comments and honestly, can you from an objective point of view not see some hints of racist thought in her article? It’s as Balty said, there are people who are racist and don’t even know it.
Maureen. I guess you also only want to see and hear what you want. When Edwards refers to “indians” as Wife murders and drug dealers increasing Canada’s crime rate exponentially is she not generalizing not to mention lying? I don’t care if she is not talking about all Indo-Trinidadians but Indians who live in Trinidad but don’t consider themselves Trinidadians….it’s still painting one group of people with one brush.
And additionally, her facts, information and grammar is so messed up and the letter lacks cognitive thought so much so that I am beginning to think this article was written by a pre-teen. – jeez what does oil & gas have to to with this issue and what is she trying to say about her personal realization about people needing ethnic divorce papers as she did in her personal life?
I find all de “Indians” and “Africans” that have unfortunately find themselves away from their “motherland” should just pack up and leave, go to the motherland and then we will hear a different story…I guarantee you!!!
Oh, this same story was used to obtain VISAs at ah certain embassy in Trinidad at a certain point in time, I know ppl who did it personally. I wonder if that still happening.
Say whatever you want, there is a racist tone in each of your comments. From whichever side you belong that’s the one you are taking. So don’t fool yourself! What I hate is that the stupid politicians are the ones causing all this racist trauma. I am a baby boomer and my school days in Trinidad–long, long time ago–had been spent with all my best friends of Indian decent. None, as I recall had been negro like I am. One of my friend’s grandmother, straight from India, wore big bracelets and rings all over her nose and wherever else. I ate and drank with them and to this day they are still my best friends. Saying that to say this, racism was not even around then. So people please put a sock in it!!
PP From Maryland, USA
Jesus Christ ,the Leveller
“For ye are all children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
For as many of you are baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
There is neither Jew nor Greek,(ie,nor Indian or African or Chinese),
there is neither bond nor free,there is neither male nor female:
for ye are all one in Christ Jesus”
Don’t mean to post so many comments but why is some moron posting comments as “Re: Riaz” which have no bearing on what I have said. Are you trying to impersonate me or are you attempting to post a witty reply, the level of which can only be grasped by as standard 2 pupil? The level of language and thought you display in your comments show that you are not ready for serious and unbiased dialog.
Patricia, I agree with you completely! In fact, someone may find some of what I say racist but I may not have even realised it….that’s why I agree, there are a lot of racist Trinidadians and they don’t even realize it. And there are a lot of Trinidians who don’t believe they are racist but do racist things, sometimes without even realizing it.
‘Re: Riaz’ you are a coward for trying to impersonate another. That also holds true for your comments.
This article by Linda Edwards reads like a tit-for-tat type of response to a silly attempt by another politician to galvanize Indians around the issue of racial persecution. It is not the first time this is happening. But on the other hand the dishonesty of politicians and their supporters is no reason to respond with inaccuracies. There is only some truth to the article but a whole lot of inaccuracies and possible slander is in that article too.
The persons who believe they have been slandered, are free to sue. I would suggest however that they check their facts first. The “too-too” word was used on “Indian” radio stations in TnT and by a prominent “Indian” politician, in reference to a “too-too mass” – the concelebrated high mass of the Anglican communion, that was held in the Jean Pierre stadium. I was covering The Archbishop’s visit for the Anglican newspaper, and so I listened to, and read all that I could on his visit.I know that a “chamar” is a S–t cleaner, and the Reverend Archbishop of Johannesburg did not deserve that. He had come in peace as a man of peace. I waited nineteen years before I said anything publicly about that. I was insulted by that politician’s behaviour. I am glad to know that the word “too-too” is only a Trinidadian country word for solid human body waste. Nonetheless, I know what I heard, and I do not make mistakes about that.
I maintain my position that all the “Indians” who want to go “home” should be actively encouraged to do so, on a one way ticket. All the Trinbagonians, including those of Indian ancestry, including my nieces and nephews, as well as my uncle are free to stay with the rest of us. Each must be given a choice. Trinidad and Tobago is a sovereign nation, and not a minor province of the great state of India. It deserves to be treated with respect by those immigrants who have been residents there for more than one hundred and fifty years.
There are Indians in India whose hair and skin colour are exactly like my family’s, so Indian is not a race, but an amalgam of African, east Asian and Aryan people, as was correctly stated by one respondent.
I confess to being a firestarter. Hopefully a phoenix will rise from the ashes of “Indian” discontent. Whenever I write, I have the capacity to provoke intense emotion, anger being one of them. It is the nature of the things I concern myself with. I want to say again, that the Kenyan and Ungandan “Indians” suffered because of their own refusal to apply for passports of those new nations. They preferred to hold on to their old British passports, until they realized that they could not get recognition for them in England. Remember the little girl who was flying around the world homeless, but loaded with her jewels which she took out of Uganda? Few of the East African “Indians” went to India. They all find the west attractive, and have prospered here, while practising their own brand of apartness.
No insult was meant to the Vice President of India by referring to him as Madam. His name was that of a childhood acquaintance who was a girl, and an unnamed woman’s picture was used to accompany the article in one paper. I though for a moment that India, having denied Sonia Gandhi the Prime Ministership for racist reasons, had relented and elected/appointed a woman as VP. After all Chile has a woman president,and Canada has its second woman Governor-General, an immigrant married to a Canadian, just like Sonia is the wife of Rajiv Gandhi.
Our country, Trinidad and Tobago, has to move forward. Those constantly appealing to foreign governments are guilty of the grossest disloyalty. They need to check themselves. I do not know what Selwyn Cudjoe has to do with this. Was he also appealing to the VP of India for relief from those who were attacking and terrorizing his mother’s house and such nonsense?
Oh-boo hoo hoo for ms Maureen! You were verball abused while in a bus in Trinidad! You say this as though if that was done in the states, “they would be killed”. Mam, you are obviously too young and have not lived in the US long enough to remember the days of Sergation. At least you could ride the same bus with people of other races and as you pointed out, the driver stopped and let the ones insulting you off because he became emberrased. So by your own story you admit that they are not all bad or ignorant. Do not complain and use words like “Kill” because the great Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was attacked by police dogs, hit with water from fire hoses and shot but never used that word in the context you did.
My granddaughter’s husband (who is sitting next to me as I type this) is a Trinidadian and we have many discussions about Trinidad bacause I have never been there. After reading the posts above, he is trying to give me an explanation to all what you are saying.
From what I can gather, the writer is asking for trouble by asking people to leave. Here’s why – my grandson-in-law says that right now people are migrating because they are treathened by kidnappers and not for race reasons. He personally knows one such family. When these families leave, they leave their business in Trinidad and continue to make money in Trinidad which is then converted to US and taken out of the country. A 40-50 year old businessman in Trinidad cannot get a job in th USA and cannot start a business of the scale he had in Trinidad so the only way he can support himself is by leaving his business in Trinidad to keep making money that does not benefit the Trinidad economy. As the writer alluded to Uganda, I will explain what happened there as she is too young to know what happened and doesn’t know the full impact. Idi Amin threw all people of Indian heritage out of Uganda and did not allow them to take their wealth. This was also true for many whites – in fact all whom he considered foreigners. This was an ironic move considering that the majority of his army was made up of Sudanese foreigners. Countries like Britan and Canada welcomed them with open arms. Their wealth was redistributed among the locals but because the locals had no prior experience in running business and farms, the economy faltered and went into a major recession. It was in the mid to late 90’s that the government of Uganda allowed all expelled to return, seeing the benefit of having these foreigners. The same is happeining to the white farmers in Zimbabwe today and the Zimbabwe people are suffering more than anybody else.
Before you tell people to go back from where they came, you should ask, why are they disgruntled. Don’t say they are whining and playing the race card because in the USA, that’s what many white people say we do when we complain. At times it’s legitimate and at other times it is not. My grandson-in-law has told me that both sides in Trinidad are equally responsible for the situation. What he did point out to me is that racist behaviour is more prevelant among the uneducated. When he was in Junior High there, he said that he would not have liked to be an indian in that school. But by the time he got into university, the atmosphere was completely different. He however fears that Trinidad is on a backwards slide and the people really have to want to fix the problem to stop it.
oh, one more thing, (this is the grandson) – back when Arcbishop Desomond Tu Tu came to Trinidad, there was no Indian radio station in existance. There may have been indian programmes but no station. I did not hear what was said but I do know that my and your fellow afro-trinidadians were making jokes like his wife and daughter were named “Alumpa and Aloda”. So don’t throw all the problems on the shoulders of Indians. When they are no longer a problem, who is next, the whites? Syrians? Chinese? THen what, you turn on one another?
We leave with this – why is it in the USA, (and I suspect other countries in the west) that Trinidadians of all races and religion can get along so wel together, so much so that they from clubs and societies? Are they “practising their own brand of apartness?”
As I see it, this topic could go on and on but we have to agree that there is no real serious racist problem in T & T. We, the people of T & T do get along with each other. As a resident of the USA for 30 years I can vouch for that! I am certain that if one goes from door- to-door to find out the truth the majority of “those neighbors” would say that they do not have a problem. We in T & T are already tied to each other, in some way. Would the “douglas”, and there are many, ask to choose their parents /families. I don’t think so! Do we not understsand how they feel when all this nonsense is going on. Look, I believe Ms Edwards is trying to make point because some of those racists never let up, but when it comes down to loving thy neighbor, she and all the rest of us Trinbagonians do love ours, matters not what they look like!! PP in Maryland
Trinidadiands of all races get along in the USA because they have to sink or swim together., and that is where “Indians” discover that they are lumped with Afro-Trinis, and African Americans. The other option is to be lumped with people from India who do not accept them, or the First Nations people, the indigenes. They are the worst off of the lot.
Since I have not said how old I am, why does someone claim I am too young to remember something?
I reiterate, the option should be given to all the whiners, to go back to India and claim their heritage.
My Indo-Trini nieces and uncle have never been threatened with kidnapping, so there MUST be more to that than race. Then too, we should look at the false kidnapping claims, done by “Indian” teenagers and youth to get money from their families. Serious problems here, that should be dealth with, not by accusing “other” Trinis of racism, but by looking inward to see that “the fault, Dear Brutus” lies in us. How many wealthy Chinese people have been kidnapped?
Oh my god! what a misguided person you are Ms. Edwards. As a few comments have stated, your information is incorrect. And to refer to people of the First Nations as the worst off of the lot shows that you are prejudiced towards not only “indians” but all who are not like youreslf. Again, you lump an entire group of people into one basket. What about Native Americans who own business and casinos and hotels? What about the ones in Canada who have oil on their land?
I do not know what is your area of expertise but if it were anthropology, you would know that indo and afro trinidadians do not gravitate ot one another in foreign countries because they are lumped as one. Do you really think that because people consider me to be something, that makes me want to be it? It’s because they have a common background and that’s why they group together. I live in Texas currently and I will tell you that you could not be further from the truth about Indians from India. Many of of the people I work with are from India and they are my friends outside of work. I have two cousins who are married to people from India. So don’t generalise about people from India.
I can clearly see that you talk/write only from your narrow perception of the world. e.g. someone told you chamar means “s**t cleaner” this is incorrect. But you believe what tht person told you without verifying it. A chamar is one of the lowest castes in Ancient India. Just because some of them cleaned outhouses does not make all of them that….but you like to generalize with people don’t you?
Maybe the reason so many “Indians” are kidnapped in trinidad is because the have money? If you sit and reson before writing, you would realise that there have only been about 4 or 5 chinese kidnapped over the past 4 years because the proportion of chinese to indians in Trinidad would reflect that! abut 450000 indians and about 20000 chinese. It’s a matter of proportions!
So Ms Edwards, hink about what you write. You writing may evoke strong emotions but that is not necessarily a good thing. The same could be said about death. Every piece you have written, from the parent article to you posts contain inaccuracies and bias. No doubt your response, if any, will follow like.
How many Indian reservations has Balty visited?
What is the ratio of doctors to population on the Navajo reservations? The infant mortality rate compared to the rest of the uSA? The rate of unemployment? These are the factors that determine “worse off” status, not a few casinos near towns, but the holes in the roof of the old woman’s house through which snow falls directly from the sky. Were you in Texas when the Alabama -Coushatta Casino, on their reservation was abruptly shut doen, and they were left holding the bag? Who shut it down the indigenous people, or the White Man’s court? What is the rate of alcoholism among First Americans in the USA? Canada’s situation may be different, particularly after the lawsuits filed by First Nations people against the Canadian churches.
Focusing on this side issue, takes away from the real issue. Trinidadian “Indians” who are asking the government of India to help them fight “racism” should ask for that help in the form of repatriation to India. The government of India cannot interfere in the internal affairs of a sovereign nation that is halfway around the world from itself. If after all the achievements of the “Indians” in Trinidad, they still feel discriminated against, they should go back to the land of their ancestors, and be relegated to the caste from which they came. This recommendation, made to the Vice President of India, still stands. I hope this piece caused the more thoughtful ones, who did not write, to really think about what was being presented to a foreign dignitary in their name, by their representatives, and published in the daily papers.This
is my final word on this issue. ‘bye!
Linda Edwards is perfectly right, impressively so for it is not often one meets a westindian woman of African descent, as wide ranging intellectually as she is, and courageous enough to publish honest and controversial takes on critical isues.
for the most part Trinidadians of Indiand descent ar pathetic when it comes to identification with the natinalist patrimony. currently it is as if they are still living in the communes Naipual described in Middle passage, exposing their insularity from the start, maintianing village life right through, focused on accumulation, interneccine warfare, mysterious murders, petty criminality etc.
this is 2006 and the westindies must be driven by a different, relevant dynamic which addresses the demands of national survival and progress in a neo-liberal world…..economic policies of a global nature which intensifies exponentially the gap betwen rich and poor nations and individuals, fleecing the ordinary people of the world on a yet more sophisticated and comprehensive level of exploitation
It is nationally suicidal for a nation such as TnT to be divided racially when national survival is at stake…and it really is.
Edwards call for repatriation as a viale option should concentrate the mind wonderfully on the real issues: we have to survive by addressing the reall issue of social development for all the people of the nation. that requires basic reform of the political/economy, which promotes true democracy and raises the issues/interests of the majority to the forefront.
If the national focus is cut up and misdirected by Indian nonsense then those who explout Tnt to the fulest will have a freer hand. Lord then knows what the future is for the ordinary…all of us…. including Indians who in their ethnocentric frame of mind are far more than stupid…but stupid and backward to an exponential degree.
so if Indians cannot come to grips with social reality, remain stupidly, irritatingly, violently pesty, cannot be lived with, focusd on INDIAN AND INDIA, then they should leave and go there, leaving those who recognise their TnT nationality, are comitted to the being Trinbagonian, and are focused on and prepared to struggle for the national independence and development.
Edwards is right raising the matter in the manner she has….not only stating the question but also proposing a way out. it is way past time for TnT/Westindian Indians to decide who ther are. if they are westindian then be westindian responsible for and to the region.
if they are indian then go home!
Ms Edwards has again generalized. Not all native americans live on reservations. And yes, I have been on a reservation before. Some of the people there live in abject poverty but not all. I could say the same about some families in Harlem and in the backwaters of Alabama. You miss the point I make about generalizations.
But the core of your argument, I do agree with – Gopio or whoever had not right to ask the Indian Vice President to intervene on a political level. But what did Gopio really mean when they asked for help? I’m not trying to water down the issue here, but did they mean military intervention or simply education in dealing with the situation. Maybe other trinidadians make some people feel alienated and that’s why they have trouble integrating. Believe me, I have had my run-ins with my share of racist Trinis and been called inappropriate names just as others have been.
What you said in your latest response ” If after all the achievements of the “Indians” in Trinidad, they still feel discriminated against, they should go back to the land of their ancestors,” shows that you have no tolerence for anyone who is not like you. If anyone feels discriminated against, the answer is not to go back from where you came. Madam, you have a Third World mentality. A classic example of this was a man who considers himself Trinidadian, – Sonny Mann when he sang at the calypso Monarch finals, he was pelted with toilet paper and news paper by the majority afro-trini crowd. The same happened to Denise Plumper many years before that and they actually shouted that “white people can’t sing calypso”. Tell me, when things like that happen to you, are you supposed to roll over and take it or go back to the county of your ancestors? The only reason indo-trinis are a thorn in your (an others like you) side is that they have the biggest numbers. If there were more white in Trinidad, they would be your problem, if there were more chinese, they would be your complaint.
You continue to again and again to display your lack of knowledge in every response you make. You mentioned the caste system, please don’t talk about something that you obviously do not understand and that is only recognized by uneducated tribal peoples of india.
On this website, there are many contributers that I do not agree with but your writings are so inaccurate and filled with bias that I feel the need to post. What makes it worse is that you feel the need to defend your work as is evident by you posting in the response area of this blog. A good writer who checked his/her facts would not have to do that.
As I said before, gopio does not spek for all indo-trinidadians and I’m sure that YOU do not speak for all afro-trinidadians.
“I’m not trying to water down the issue here, ” Balty!
Yes you are and have watered down the issue! regardless of all you site, Trinidadians of Indian descent are an ethnocentric people to the greatest degree..comparable to the Jews of the world.
it does not matter the bad African behaviour you list or the bad Indian behaviour on the other side.
regardless of all that, Idian people would rather live amongst themselves, have no particular interest in any other ethnic group save themselves…. and wherever Indians live in numbers live exactly the obnoxious way in which they have always lived in TnT.
yes there is African ethnocentric behaviour in TnT. but have Africans displayed a great sense of willingness to involve themselves generally and integrate?
Yes!
have Indians displayed the same?
no! quite the contrary!
what Indians have displayed is seperatist behaviour, isolationist behaviour, a tremendous unwillingness to integrate in any way at all, that finds greatest expression in incidents like imploring the Indian vice president to intervene in their behalf
that is the problem! Indians see Africans as inferior, monkeys etc., and have no intention of building a unified TnT comunity in tandem with Africans.
what Linda Edwards does not mention is that the reverse of her solution s also true… that we Africans can go home too, be dispersed outwards, TnT cleansed of us…and that the Indians would dearly love to effect such a solution in TnT
If I am not mistaken that is exactly what Indians have in mind…for both TnT and Guyana.
so the boats could just as easily be coming for us and not the Indians…although the fact that in the region and in the Americas there are vast numbers of Africans, growingly influential…. and because of thatfact such any such forced evacuation may be quite impossible.
and in my experience in Tnt Indian racism towards Africans is growing worse than it ever was, a quite open fact now, no doubt due to a sense of strength indians may now be feeling due to their increased or superior numbers as noted by the above poster.
isnt it fair to ask then, that in the face of superior economic clout, greater demographic numbers, among so much more…. why Indians still feel it incumbet upon them to beg intereference and intercession from outside nations?
Mawtamer, I never accused you of trying to water down the issue. Re-read what I wrote! What you and Edwards are saying about Indians keeping themselves seperate is your opinion. By that logic, trinidadians should not have an Trinidadian clubs or societies when they live overseas. That would be keeping seperate. And I guess, you also take issue with Syrians only marring syrians and whites only marring whites in Trinidad? The fact is Indians and Africans are the two races in Trinidad that mix the most.
Some people don’t like that indians hold onto their culture perhaps because their culture was stripped from them when their forefathers were forceable taken out of africa. They were now forced to develop a new culture – henceforth came calypso, steelpan and carnival (adopted from the french). Indians kept their heritage with them and you appear to find this “annoying” and you compare us to Jews as though that is a bad thing. You sound not only anti-Indian but also anti-Semite.
Why is being proud of the culture of your forefathers something that is frowned upon by you?
I say again, Gopio does not speak for all indo-trinidadians. All I am saying is that both sides are equally guilty when it comes to race relations in Trinidad. No afro-Trinidadian has ever asked for intervention from another country but they have done things that can be equated to the present situation – just recently I heard the mother(and neighbours) of a man shot by police say that “Black people can’t get justice in this country”. Now who is seperating themselves there? And it’s such a ridiculous statement – the AG is afro, the DPP is afro and the majority of the police force is afro.
You yourself say that wherever indians live, they are “obnoxious”. Now I could stoop to your level and say, wherever africans live together, they commit crime like in Beetham and Lavantille. But I know better. In Beetham there are people with honest jobs who suffer because of the few bad apples. My point from the start is that Edwards and now you are generalizing about people as though they are one organism.
Face it, “Indian” Trinis would have as much difficulty integrating into Indian society as “African Americans” would integrating into African society. Perhaps they might find work in call centres, given that their English is better than many Indians working there.
PS: The Commonwealth ceased to be British in 1946, four years before India became a republic within it, and thirty years before Trinidad and Tobago did.
Ken….I have to give it to you…you made me laugh with your call centre comment.
Some people don’t like that indians hold onto their culture perhaps because their culture was stripped from them when their forefathers were forceable taken out of africa. They were now forced to develop a new culture – henceforth came calypso, steelpan and carnival (adopted from the french). Indians kept their heritage with them and you appear to find this “annoying” and you compare us to Jews as though that is a bad thing. You sound not only anti-Indian but also anti-Semite.
YOU MUST APPLY THE YOUR OPINION THING TO THAT OF YOURS QUOTED ABOVE.
what I understood Linda Edwards to say is that the attitude of Indians undermines TnT.
Gopio’s is the most current example of the thing Edwards cites….Indian crying wolf to the world about discrimination when nothing tall go …. using this spurious claim fo whatever advantage the seek in a location like Canad for eg…. advantage at the expense of the AfricanTnT demographic.
How would you feel if you African co-nationalist go about the planet citing Indians as racist, controlling a disporportionate part of the national pie, seeking to lock Africans out period?
How do you build a country when your conationalist behaves in such a manner, calls himself Indian…. not TnT or westindian…. and is more prone than any other ethnic section of the national cominuty these days, to hurl racist epithes particularly at nationals of African descent.
that is the issue here, the real one, the only one!
If you are citizens, westindians it demands form Indians a different approach, which if it underpins general attitude would reflect in different behaviour from west-Indians
at the end of the day then we can have our differences in the full knowledge that the nation that makes us who we are is safe in our hands as well as yours, as the other ethnic groups.
all these points about Indian clubs, holding on to your culture, this and that is of little concern here.
everything changes over time and cohabition. nothing you hold onto will the be same 20, 40, 60 years from now anyway, no matter how hard you try to hold on to your culture.
we know the laws of social development, scientific advance and technological innovation and how these impact social movement forcing change all the time. based on this knowledge we try for the broad changes in the melange’ that will gurantees as far as possible general survival
so if yuh have a diverse comunity you seek to ensure that all groups have and can maintain as necessary to their cohesiveness that which assues this in the best way. so have your clubs and le the other have theirs too. and when you are abroad do the same things to make sure the comunity wherever is as safe as possible in the overall picture. but at the edges there is always the growth of something new, the integration, fusion, that will in time subsume all the diversity and make a whole of it.
well what is happening in Tnt from the indian point of view is opposite to this.
Indians for the most part appear to be fighting this natural development with an intensification of an ethnocentrism that is as old as the comunity in the region…which intensification finds full expression in spurrious and widespread accusations of racism and discrimination on the part of Africans towards Indians, of such an extreme quality, so bad in fact that that it warrants refugee status in Canada.
the real point here have nothing tp do with what you keep bringing up Balty. the greates part of the problems stems from the general movement of Indians in Tnt and the westindies.
You have a choice to make. Do you agree that you are westindian and for you the westindies and your national part of it comes first and India second?
If you agree that you are westindian as resposible for and to the region as whites, Africans, Chinese enationals etc then it would show in your generalised behaviour and rhe problems we now discuss and refer to would just about disappear wouldnt they?
if you do not agree and continue on your current insular path you would agree that we all have a serious problem wouldnt you?
“Indians kept their heritage with them and you appear to find this “annoying” and you compare us to Jews as though that is a bad thing. You sound not only anti-Indian but also anti-Semite. ”
oh geez! my sleepy post above! there should be an edit button here!
you appear to be somewhat insincere Balty! you appear to be an informed person so your reference to anti-semite here is ridiculous and you know it
the comparative is the intransigence of jews and Indians, the insularity of both groups based on Indian and Jewish sense of superiority of their kind over the rest of the societies they are a part of.
you are aware of all that is meant here by all who have spoken, on any and all sides of the issue.
you arwe aware of the Jewish situation and all it entails..enough to know instantly that my reference and comaprison is not anti-semite
you even understand my convoluted, and edit needy post immediately above
if you are sincere then you would respond in a manner seeking advancement of the issue, not water it down by roaming all over to issues we are all aware of, how and why they take place etc ….like Indians holding on to their culture and so on.
nobody against Indians for being Indian, no westindians I know against Indians for anything of the sort.
but in the westindies you must be westindian too..sincerely westindian.
thats what the rest of the westindies require or you, expect from you and are shocked when you display, your whiney, lying, betrayal of the westindies, prostrating yourselves at the feet of foreign nations, imploring them to intercede in your behalf, or begging refugee status on spurrious, eroneous grounds, that reflect disastrously on the image of African westindians the world over
thats the point man! why shoud foreign nations intercede!? intercede for what!? nobody doing nuthing to you/Indians, put blocks in their way way, have done nothing to you/they and will not do anything as we go.
you fine and there is no reason at all why you should be the way you are.
that the indian comunity still harbours such insular sentiment that Gopio feels free to go before the VP of India with his nonsense proves Linda Edwards out.
Gopio is not a voice of one as you claim!
if he were a voice of one he would have long been isolated, could not make it to an audience in any form, with such an exalted one as the Indian vp on state visit to TnT…could not speak the irrlevant nonsense on radio, tv or in newspapaer.
thats it…not all your roamings all over the place!