Monday, March 18 2013
Newsday – newsday.co.tt
Responding to scores of requests from its paying patrons over the last month, the management of the Emperor Valley Zoo took the bold decision to ban entry to men who are inappropriately dressed in sagging trousers which expose their jockey shorts or other choice of underwear being worn.
Athough the origin of “Sagging” is not known for sure, the prevailing opinion seems to be that it began in prison, due to inmates not being allowed to wear belts. Many people believe that bearing this in mind, it is therefore incomprehensible as to why this would gain popularity here in Trinidad or elsewhere, especially among the younger generation,
President of the Zoological Society of Trinidad and Tobago, Gupte Lutchmedial stated the ban was necessary as complaints have increased especially from senior citizens and families visiting the zoo, who claim they are discomforted by this breach of decency having encountered several young men “sporting” this style in recent times.
Full Article : newsday.co.tt
The Emperor Valley Zoo wants to restrict the freedom of individuals based on “increasing” public discomfort with baggy pants. They throw around the words senior citizens and families to get support. I do not support preventing persons wearing what they feel unless their actions pose a danger to others. I would like to know what about sagging pants are disrespectful and pose a threat to zoo patrons. I would also like to know, what other freedoms The Emperor Valley zoo wants to restrict.
I don’t like saggy pants too but to ban them based on complaints is ridiculous. If people start complaining about saris would they ban that too? What about if people complained about women in shorts and miniskirts … see how ridiculous this is?
Ahh shucks, and who cares? Let them ban saggy pants, saris, interracial dating, soca music, steel pan, chutney whining,swearing in by the President , with the King James bible, all disgruntled Folks from big brother Trinidad , from visiting Tobago , anyone presently living in the East West corridor region ,from owing a house , or lands,in Central, all future elections, all Afrikan folks from holding lofty positions on State , or private boards,all forms of civil protest, on Monday ,Thursday, and, or Friday,all immigrants , not from European countries from ever visiting T&T, and de list continue’s.
Guess what would happen as our Nuevo rich powers that be , continue to push their luck, with ever so ridiculous bans? The people that are affected, would hopefully rise up ,and say , no mas!
Well, so we think-but bear in mind ,that most socially comatose Trinis, ‘ain’t really care , if Good Friday fall’s on a Monday,’Si?
I luv this land- political distractions and all!
The zoo did not ban baggy pants. The zoo banned the wearing of pants in such a manner as to expose most of your underwear. Many schools and public institutions in other parts of the world have already banned this disgusting habit. Individuals wearing lowered trowsers to intentionally expose their underwear have been refused admission on certain airlines even though they bought tickets to fly.
Anyone who condones this primitive practise should have their heads examined.In a climate of rampant crime perpetuated mainly by certain elements, this is the last thing we need. …one more disrespectful symbol parading around our public spaces.
To drag the wearing of the sari into this debate is ludicrous.
“To drag the wearing of sari into this debate is ludicrous,”and yes, maybe in your putrid , not too closeted racist mind ,T-Man , but not us the more progressive , lebertarian thinking blokes, who appreciate freedoms of choice.
You know the kinds, that denounce selective curfews , that target only low end , kinky hair , Simi literate kids,unable to hire Isreal Khan , or Ramesh MAraj , as lawyers, be they from JOhn , John, Nelson Street, upper Gonzales, and Caranege , but won’t touch with a 10 ft pole , others from unmentionable , neo tribal enclaves? Oh yes, we are the same blokes, that feel disgusted , when secret meetings are being convened , by ET,and Casper de ghost ,to reintroduce the extra judicial ,neo genocidal Flying Squad, or authorize Tethron boys , and gals to arrest ordinary citizens , in a free society.
See what begin’s to take place , when agenda driven politicians,their conniving handlers, and policy wonks , start walking down de slippery slopes , of curtailing people’s fundamental rights,T-Man?
Your cross country ,graduate daughter in Toronto , ain’t have to worry about that , as she prepare to return in 2016 , to good old T&T ,to run for a safe seat/office , maybe in Fizabad, does she?
Seriously buddy, outside of walking naked in public, no one should be told what to wear, or how to wear it ,in any free society.
You are the same types of characters , that would not employ an Afrikan Male , or Female , in one of the many business joints , in T&T, because they sport a Rasta hairstyle , but were skinning / grinning ,like constipated hyenas , when your political papa Basdeo Panday, defied Parliamentary decency ,by choosing to wear his rum drinking bush jacket, and rubber boots to parliament, or worst yet , check his stolen stocks, on his expensive laptop ,while the House of Representative was sitting, in defiance of the Speaker’s orders. Can’t have it both ways.
Trust me , there are guys who are equally offended , in seeing the potruding stomachs , and or backs ,of your females , that sports their colorful Saris daily ,across T&T, but I , would defend my Hindustani sister’s to de death, their rights ,to wear a fig leaf ,if they desire.
Hey T-Man, go tell this clueless bloke ,Gupte Lutchmedial ,in care of our Emperor Valley Zoo, to give it a rest, and instead ,try to upgrade the condition of the Zoo,whose standards has obviously fallen , due to gross neglect.
Truth be told , I have not visited that animal abusing ,dung heap ,in close to 25 years , and won’t do so today , even if you pay me a million T&T dollars. Would you?
Luv humanity, mi amigos- especially in la trinity , where every creed ,and race finds and equal place, ehhh, T-Mn?
This is ridiculous. I do not agree with the Zoo banning the wearing of saggy pants. What is the basis for this? I think this ban targets a particular group in society that usually wears saggy pants…and surely even a post on this blog topic said ‘In a climate of rampant crime perpetuated mainly by certain elements’. What sector of society could this be making reference to? This mode of wearing pants includes the likes of Jay-Z, Justin Bieber, Kanye West and Rihanna, are they part of these ‘certain’ criminal elements too. If you decide to target them for wearing saggy pants with underwear showing, it cannot be because of nudity, there are much more prominent examples of persons that dress far more scantily – bottom cheeks, breast cleavage so low you don’t have to imagine nipples are millimetres away, butt cleavage – and they are not targeted. If you want to claim it is because persons’ underwear are visible, what about persons who wear regular pants under their saggy jeans, not underwear. Also, many females wear bras – aka underwear – with fishnet styled or transparent material tops, why is this not attacked? As far as I am concerned, anyone can pick up and say any piece of clothing item is disrespectful if you start going down this line. As a separate issue, I do not agree with quoting ‘Tennessee, Arkansas, and Florida’, because some practice is done somewhere abroad it does not mean we have to import their silliness. It further does not mean it is right or has been fully discussed or reasoned out. Finally, I think it is dishonest to compare banning smoking in the Zoo – a serious health issue and something that was directly affecting chimpanzees and other animals, to one’s personal choice of attire.
http://mashable.com/2013/03/18/canada-social-farting/
Way to go Akilah. Go tell em!Just maybe , we are the real free Canadians, my Sistaz,and not the phony, selectively outraged blokes ,such as T-Man, who escaped from their genocidal , pro discriminatory country , way back in 1986?
Tell me again,who wanted to ban de cock on our Parliament Roofs, Kaisonians , such as Cro Cro, from singing satirical songs , unfavorable to some politicians, Adventist schools from pushing their religions, but focus on burying alive , an unfortunate female teacher ,who dared/ had de audacity to stand up against recism / segregation ,in her state supported school? Call names Akilah , and I would whistle! Ok up next, we are soon going to introduce a law that would ban folks ,owning any car more than 8 years old ,from driving along the Lady Young Road, or worst yet , travel any where past de Grand Bazar Shopping complex,en route to Central, on -soon to be renamed from Uriah Buz BUtler Highway to Sat Ma…- on Monday’s ,and Thursday’s. Just kidding people!
I luv dis land , but ah tell you, often times Akilah , it can become quite a challenge! Keep de faith ,my sister, and remember , to vote wisely,next time around , Si? Not saying you didn’t before.
I am with the Zoo on this one. I would ban them from my home. I have two sons, and it would churn my stomach a billion times if one of them were to dress this way. Is this a style? I dont know.
I also have a daughter, and no young man could have come to my door to speak to her dressed like that, not to mention taking her out. But I suppose some of the folks here dont have with a problem with that.
T-Man, I agree that the dragging the wearing of saris into this debate is ludicrous.
Watchman, talking about shorts. Recently, at a repast after a funeral, I saw two young ladies change from their funeral attire to sexy shorts to serve the guests. Maybe, that is appropriate for you and obviously the parent of one of the girls (the other was a friend), but that was not the time nor place for a daughter of mine.
Clearly most of you’ll here are single minded. talking about freedom of choice, really if the zoo chooses to ban saggy ugly pants hey that’s their right. your choice would be not to go if that (again) is your choice of clothing, and form the comments of you guys , one has to wonder if that’s your choice of clothing.
And Akilah, what group are they targeting here, guys that have self respect, dignity, any kind of moral, good point on the choices of clothes that are appropriate. however if your read the news paper itself you would have notice the sign that targets all in inappropriate clothing including that for women. Also you wanna talk about importing silliness from abroad, did saggy pants start down here or are those same entertainers (your God sent, who are not criminals and has never been in a court room, and promotes love, decency, and dress like angels) promoting this dress code and hey what are they doing down here wholesaling that same silliness.
I agree with the zoo, ban saggy, I don’t need my kids going to the zoo and seeing someone’s butt. And further just because night clubs didnt come outright and ban saggy, they too have a dress code to adhere, and am sure most of you shut up and dress to suite.
The Zoo is not simply someone’s private institution; it is paid for by taxpayers and the grounds for that ban are clearly discriminatory like some of the comments here. This is not about trying to institute formal or semi-formal dress codes; the Zoo is a casual environment. What is the principle behind banning a style that some people do not like? What about this stereotyping TMan came up with: “Anyone who condones this primitive practise should have their heads examined. In a climate of rampant crime perpetuated mainly by certain elements…” so people in general who wear saggy pants are now criminals? Should they ban those European suits because the biggest criminals in the land wear them (check parliament and the business community)? This issue is not about criminality or about nudity (which already is foolishness given our carnival and beach wear) it is about trying to implement a policy about how people should wear clothes and fashion on the grounds that some people object to the style. Should they ban mommy jeans because the waistlines are too high and many people do not like them? Should they ban hipster pants because the cracks of the butt of some women show? Should they ban saris because some Indians wear them and their bellies show… something Muslims could object to? For peat’s sake it’s a style that would eventually fade… and we should not condone bad policies that can also be annexed to some people’s racist attempt to regulate Africans.
We should try to keep race (regulate Africans) out of debates like these. Latinos, Blacks and some white dress like this. Regardless, they all look stupid, they all would not be allowed in my home, they would not be welcomed around my girl child, and if my sons should have friends who dress this way, my sons would know that I am not to be invited to their homes when these folks are around.
A little birdie is telling me, that somewhere there are parents who are secretly applauding the Zoo’s decision, because they as parents could not be as effective.
No to ‘saggy pants’
By SASHA HARRINANAN Tuesday, March 19 2013
NATIONAL Security Minister Jack Warner says the Emperor Valley Zoo in Port-of-Spain did the right thing when its management team decided to deny entry to men inappropriately dressed in sagging trousers that expose their jockey shorts or other choice of underwear.
“The zoo has my full support,” Warner declared. “In fact, any institution, public or private, which chooses to institute a similar ban would also have my support because many times the guys who wear their pants that way are involved in deviant behaviour.”
Warner’s views came after Newsday’s front page story in yesterday’s edition headlined “Zoo bans ‘saggy’ pants”, in which President of the Zoological Society of Trinidad and Tobago, Gupte Lutchmedial, explained the ban was implemented after the zoo received numerous complaints from senior citizens and families about their discomfort in the presence of young men who sported low-slung pants that exposed their underwear.
Lutchmedial told Newsday there have only been, “a few incidents”, since the ban came into effect last week Monday, March 11. “Mostly on weekends you find men trying to enter the zoo wearing saggy pants. On Sunday (March 17), two young guys whose jerseys were covering their pants upon entry, were later spotted inside the zoo with their underwear exposed. Security asked them to fix their clothes but they refused, so they were escorted off the compound and their admission money was refunded,” Lutchmedial said yesterday. The National Security Minister’s support for the ban came as no surprise, since he himself spoke out against the wearing of saggy pants shortly after his appointment to the post last June.
Addressing the launch of the Victim and Witnesses Support Unit (VWSU) of the TT Police Service’s regional conference at Hyatt Regency in Port-of-Spain on August 27, Warner promised to target youths who wore their pants on their buttocks because, “those are the kinds that develop patterns that lead to indiscipline.”
Questioned about the status of his plan to address this trend, most common in teenaged boys and young men, Warner yesterday told Newsday, “This is something I raised at the National Security Council very early in my term. We have not abandoned it at all. In the fullness of time, after looking at all of the pros and cons of the matter, I expect we shall come up with a programme or campaign to address this.” The Emperor Valley Zoo is not alone in its saggy pants ban. The Office of the Prime Minister is one of many government institutions which does not allow entrance to visitors or staff, who have on one or more of the following — sleeveless tops, short pants, rubber slippers and saggy pants.
While there isn’t a nationwide ban on wearing these items in public spaces, nor has legislation been introduced to do so, such moves have been made within the United States.
In February 2012, the Alabama House of Representatives unanimously passed a Montgomery county ordinance, dubbed the “Saggy Pants” Bill, which imposed a fine of up to US$100 for juveniles and up to US$150 for adults cited for wearing “saggy pants.”
A few months later, in October 2012, the City Council of Cocoa, Florida voted three-to-one in favour of a new ordinance which barred persons in “public view from wearing pants or skirts below the waistline that expose the undergarments or the skin.” That law was scheduled to come into effect on January 1.
http://www.newsday.co.tt/news/0,175027.html
Those who argue that civil liberties are being violated by this ban are correct, that is, the civil liberties of those who have to tolerate this “saggy” inappropriate, visual display of poor taste.
Check out this definition:
Civil liberties are civil rights and freedoms that provide an individual specific rights. Though the scope of the term differs amongst various countries, some examples of civil liberties include the freedom from slavery and forced labor, freedom from torture and death, the right to liberty and security, freedom of conscience, religion, expression, press, assembly and association, speech, the right to privacy, the right to equal treatment and due process and the right to a fair trial. More disputed but commonly accepted in purpose are the right to life (i.e. as opposed to the state’s right to punish), the right to own property, the right to defend one’s self, the right to bodily integrity, and the right to keep and bear arms.
“I resolutely believe that respect for diversity is a fundamental pillar in the eradication of racism, xenophobia and intolerance. There is no excuse for evading the responsibility of finding the most suitable path toward the elimination of any expression of discrimination against indigenous peoples.” ~ Rigoberta Menchu
Is there any room for intolerance of others in any progressive society?
We understand white America’s fears- though the fact remains, that there are just as much to be feared about white ,dysfunctional ,gun luving kids , acoss the land of the free, who goes on shooting sprees , when their girlfriends ,refuses to give them a goodnight kiss.
http://theblackmancan.org/?p=2860
We also know who is for draconian measures ,in T&T, but as for the bigger , and not too subtle ,agenda related obsession , the question here should really be ,why this obsession?
http://www.usprisonculture.com/blog/2010/12/14/sagging-pants-criminality-and-prison-clothing/
Some much wiser than yours truly ,might enquire ,don’t they have equally as much, ugly ,social issues , to grapple with ,in their own neglected communities?
Maybe not, they don’t care ,or worst yet ,dare touch taboo affairs , with a 10 foot pole , eeeh T-Man?
I totally agree with the Zoo for banning guys in that sort of attire . Every house owner is entitled to set rules and who don’t like it lay down beside it. Quite sure that would not affect their income. It’s ridiculous and disgusting and unambitious. Also disrespectful to toddlers who frequent the zoo. Their might be a place and time to wear such, like if they were to go to a certain type of party and everyone else is of the same taste or mindset. Please tell me what is soooo attractive about seeing a guy with his entire boxers out of his pants and his pants is lodged just under the brink of his butt walking like a phantom. Is that even proper hygiene? How risky is that for people to have to sit where a guy just got up in a taxi when who knows what’s dripping out of his butt? Clothes were made not only to hide one’s nakedness. Females can be disgusting too but I know for sure there is at least beautiful skin most of the time that can put a smile on a man’s face and even a woman might say “wow, she has beautiful skin”. Pray tell, what is there to admire about this butt out style except to gain the admiration of a gay man? That is certainly a jail style which we should discourage our boys to wear. That style is enough reason to be picked upon by the cops for a free pat down which can turn out ugly when he takes offense and sometimes end in the loss of an innocent life because he wasn’t smart enough to distract attention from himself by choosing to wear his pants like that in the name of style. I am a black person and I take no offense to any race speaking against this and I do not encourage any race of young men to promote this jail style. Black young men should already know they are especially an endangered species, therefore why wear such type of clothing . Be smart like the criminals in suits at least. Don’t be so blatantly stupid to show yourselves up as jail substance or bait for police. Rise above and change the stereotype syndrome. Some of our youths get gunned down because they cannot run fast enough with a baggy pants without a belt. No joke! My son grew up liking to tuck his shirt in his pants all on his own but he is 18 now and try to subtly adopt that style too. I am on his case every instance I have and have no doubt he doesn’t pull it down when he gets out of my sight. If he has ambition for that I can only think his aspirations are not very high for himself. If any girl can even have feelings for a guy who dress as such, she too is lacking substance unless she has a plan that she knows can work to reform his choice of dress. My daughter knows better than to bring a guy dressed like that to my house ans should incase she loses her mind they would not make it past my first treader. I look back at myself and I’m disgusted at some of the clothes I wore, which was not only disrespectful to myself but also to others. Please grown adults,let’s a light to the youths and not encourage them to lower their self-worth by telling them they are free to wear what they want. Would you hire one of them if they were to come into your reputable place of business with that kind of seeking a job or would you hire the guy in the suit? Somehow I think the latter would be your choice. If so, then something cannot be right about that .
http://www.trinicenter.com/Raffique/2001/Jan/Breakingdown.htm
Yeah ,we know , this freedom to dress as one pleases , so long as one ain’t breaking the law ,by streaking , or indulging in indecent exposure , is only applicable ,to lower class , rebellious youths , eager to garner some unaccustomed attention . It should only be of deep concern , for political figures ,concerned about shedding their neo imperialist yoke , with empty public gestures, such as burning their western suits in favor of de gabs , prefered by the likes of Neo Socialist , and or ,Non alligned Movement ,head gurus , such as Che , Mao, Fidel, Nkrumah, Tito, Nehru , Nassar , and Sukarno.
There is a significant difference between demands / expectations for a population at large , visiting a public place ,such as the Emperor Valley Zoo, as opposed to specific rules , that can be set by a House owner, or even private members club? First of all , no guy who comes on Trini center nation , while adopting de sobriquet ,Twist, does not deserves to refer to himself as a Black man , much less , be in some position ,to condemn dress codes of others .
Seriously twist , where does it end? Is it telling our women they should abstain from wearing bikinis ,in light color clothings ,or quit bathing in our public beaches unless they are covered from head to feet , in ugly clothing , so as to prevent potential perverts ,from admiring their fine forms?
If you can live with all that matters during our annual decadent carnival, why are you getting worked up ,over irrelevant distractions , or do you wish that we should modify that as well , to make it look more like folks attending a Saudi Arabian , Mecca pilgrimage , or Papal inauguration? Wake me up guys, when you are equally outraged at the levels of incest ,and similar blatant abuse of kids, and women , via rapes , and forced suicides ,that are so common across certain , unmentionale sectors of our society , before you decided to bring back the hang man noose , for a few these few , really , illiterate , low caste , socially hopelss bozos , that parade’s across our nation – of all races, and ethnic tribes , one might add.
Long live our democracy , and may the fundamental Rights / freedoms, we as a nation subscribe to continue into perpetuity,Si?