By AZARD ALI
September 15, 2015 – newsday.co.tt
A British-based attorney yesterday, said the Opposition United National Congress’ (UNC) election petition could cut both ways, as the ruling People’s National Movement (PNM) could claim it also lost votes due to the extension of voting time in the election held two Mondays ago.
Attorney Anand Beharrylal, who specialises in constituional law, however supported the UNC’s petition on the basis that the courts need to lay down the law on the powers of the Elections and Boundaries Commission (EBC) relating to extending the time for voting, without consulting political parties.
Trinidad-born Beharrylal was asked to comment on the UNC’s petition, which seeks to challenge the EBC’s decision to extend voting in Monday’s general election by an hour, due to heavy rains, especially across the East-west Corridor.
The UNC contends that it was in the lead in certain marginal constituencies by 6 pm.
Beharrylal told Newsday that Rule 56 of the Representation of the People’s Act, provides that the only circumstance that would permit the presiding officer to suspend or adjourn voting, is if it is interrupted by riot or open violence.
Beharrylal said the EBC’s media release in which it purports to rely on Section 71 of the Constitution that does not make the EBC subject to any person or authority, is insufficient grounds to extend the voting from 6 pm to 7 pm.
“This does not exempt the EBC from acting within the law laid down by the Act,” Beharrylal said.
He explained that extending voting due to rain, is inconsistent with the only other instance in Trinidad and Tobago’s history, when on December 4, 1961, voting was extended due to problems with the voting machines.
Notably, this was only done after an emergency session of the then PNM Cabinet.” On the issue of a court hearing, such a petition, Beharrylal said it is his view, the UNC has serious evidential challenges to overcome, pointing out that the court would have to determine which party candidate was likely to win the particular seat or seats, by determining which party voters voted for, during the extended period from 6 pm to 7 pm.
Asking such a question of the voter, Beharrylal added, is prohibited.
The attorney went on to state that while Section 35 of the Act, requires an election to be conducted in accordance with election rules, it also makes it clear that no election shall be declared invalid, even if there is a breach of election rules. Beharrylal questioned why the UNC did not raise its objection at the time when the EBC made the decision to extend the voting time.
Despite these and other hurdles, the British-based attorney said whatever evidence is adduced, the UNC’s petition is not frivolous or vexatious, because where there is a situation in which the EBC can be deemed to have not abided by the election rules, a challenge of such action is in the public interest, to ensure that it does not happen again.
He maintained the EBC ought to have consulted with political parties before extending the time of voting.
He concluded, “If they have defied any requirement to consult with the political parties, it is in our interest for this to be determined by our courts to ensure it does not happen again.”
122 thoughts on “It could cut both ways for UNC or PNM”
“there is a situation in which the EBC can be deemed to have not abided by the election rules, a challenge of such action is in the public interest, to ensure that it does not happen again”.
This should be the primary objective of the UNC.
Kamla has finally conceded.The EBC and the Public Service must realize that they serve all of the people of T&T, not the PNM. The PP should be highlighting the activities of many in public service jobs, who should have been impartial, but chose instead by their actions and statements to show preference for the PNM. This has been a problem plaguing the country since the days of Eric Williams.
I hate to disillusion you, but those of us who have lived in Trinidad over the last 5 years and have eyes to see, will know for a fact that Kamla is not challenging the results in the public’s interest.
I am sure Kamla is aware of the issues raised by Anand Beharrylal and understands that the chances of overturning the election results and being installed as Prime Minister are almost non existent.
This action of hers is to accomplish two things
1) To hold on to the leadership of the UNC
2) To destabilize the country in the hope that the PNM will be forced to go back to the polls mid term.
This is why Basdeo Panday is a statesman and Political elder while Kamla is the worst thing to happen to our country and our democracy.
Some years ago when the elections resulted in an equal number of seats going to the UNC and the PNM, the then President ANR Robinson decided to declare the PNM the victors, even though in such a situation the right choice would have been the incumbent Prime Minister, Basdeo Panday. Mr. Panday had every right to challenge that decision. What did he do? Well he put the country first because he understood the potential for a race war and the country descending into civil rioting
Even though Mr. Panday’s cause would have been just he put his country before his Political ambitions.
This woman’s cause is not just. The EBC is acting in the Public’s interest, when they make it possible for more Trinidadians to exercise the rights of citizenship.
In this country when it rains many areas flood. I might add many of the areas that the UNC have declared their base floods, which would make it difficult for UNC supporters to go out there and support their party.
So accusing the EBC of bias is just rationalizing and trying to justify unjust behaviour. Behaviour that is motivated by greed and a willingness to destroy a country in order to hold on to power.
Obviously the UNC had some diabolical plan for it’s second term in office, that the voters of Trinidad and the EBC got in the way of.
The EBC and the Public Service must realize that they serve all of the people of T&T, not the PNM. The PP should be highlighting the activities of many in public service jobs, who should have been impartial, but chose instead by their actions and statements to show preference for the PNM. This has been a problem plaguing the country since the days of Eric Williams. —-TMan
This is a load of crap. Where is there evidence that the EBC is biased in favour of the PNM? Why did the UNC not raise their objections from day one?
UNC activists are forever trying to sell themselves as the ultimate victims of a diabolical racial scheme to deny Indians, most of which is peddled around without substantive proof.
Some Indian misleaders and activists want total dominance of Trinidad and Tobago, failing which, they perpetually claim the African community and the PNM are out to persecute them. I wonder sometimes if people just lie about history or if they are genuinely ignorant. The civil service is one such example. Those jobs were traditionally taken up by people who did not have other means of survival … mostly Africans who were settled away from decent agricultural lands in and around Port of Spain. The salaries were low and these jobs were not valued.
Traditionally, Indians shied away from such jobs just like they shied away from football, the police service and the army. The caste system mentality is the reason for this. Many Indian parents did not want their children so closely associating with Africans. Instead, they kept them on the land, and when they could afford better send them to schools to train in one of the many elitist professions. The civil service, like football, reflected Indian cultural disdain for certain activities in Trinidad and Tobago and not racism on the part of Africans.
Only after countless protests and strikes by mostly African civil servants for improved wages and working conditions did Indians start applying in droves to be part of the civil service. For the most part, they wanted leadership positions and many argued against the tradition of promoting within the ranks in favour of their academic qualifications on its own as being more suitable for leadership positions. They were not prepared to grow through the ranks like everyone else. The PNM accommodated many Indians like this. PNM was always eager to show that they were embracing Indians. Indian misleaders took every gesture to accommodate them as mere tokenism.
It became UNC’s racist, political propaganda to claim African racism in the civil service and armed forces from just the appearance of the higher ratio of Africans to Indians. But the composition of those fields really spoke of Indian anti-African racism. At one time, some were also arguing that football in Trinidad was racist … “just look at the amount of African players versus Indian players” … and they were thoroughly discredited.
There is an ongoing play for total Indian dominance by forces from the Indian community and they would not settle for anything less. Africans must be reduced to the lowest caste for these Indian misleaders to be fully appeased. Because of this not-so-secret agenda, people are quite right to distrust Indians (mostly Hindus) in leadership positions in Trinidad and Tobago. It is not the already demoralizing Eurocentric class game but the outright despicable caste agenda they are pushing that seeks to totally strip Africans of humanity for their egotistical and Caste-Hindu religous comfort.
JustRight, you present a good argument based on your subjective perception of the events and history. You, like me have presented no evidence. My points are also based on my subjective experience, and perception.
Maybe the truth is somewhere in between.
Without evidence how do we know who is JustWrong.
You made the accusations so you should provide the proof and not call on me to prove a negative.
Maybe if you studied history instead of being racist and peddling false racial accusations on the blog you would know that many of the claims some Indians make about historically being discriminated against by Africans are simply not true.
Raffique Shah has provided another explanation (which I only partially accept) for the lack of Indians in the army and it had nothing to do with Africans discriminating against Indians.
“Memories of Regiment’s first Indian officer…a personal experience” http://www.trinicenter.com/Raffique/2001/Mar/252001.htm
The debate regarding a lack of Indians in government related institutions has long been over. Explanations and rationalizations have been presented, some accepted, others rejected.That topic has been closed for some time, because accommodations and adjustments have been made to the satisfaction of many.
The issue which I poorly presented was the influence of the PNM card carrying members of the public service in leadership positions in government departments who spent the last five years undermining the PP.There are numerous examples, but I believe that it is not in our best interest to look backwards at this point.
We have a new government. Let us see how they perform.
These debates, as you call them, which, in my view, are generally about certain Hindu-Indians hurling insults at Africans and the PNM, are far from over. Not many Africans are sufficiently aware and informed to challenge these accusations. These misinformed, racist Indian/Hindu comments are being repeated all over right now. When would Indian/Hindu ‘leaders’ take to the airways to condemn these racist comments and distortions to history? We do not see that here. Many Indians are being employed in a dubious concept of correcting ethnic imbalances which are based on lies and distortions. So we have more injustices to Africans based on this false premise of racism against Indians that are being redressed by giving them preferential job opportunities. These false accusations need addressing all the time.
I am pleased that there are others on this thread with facts and the time to share.
I think that this is another case of trying to be smart with foolishness. As stated by the attorney, the arguments presented by the UNC will also have to be presented for the PNM as well before serious considerations can be given to this matter. We saw it in government, the UNC applies the letter to the law and almost never deal with the spirit of the law which is equally important. What happens for example, iF a voter reaches the polling station at 5:55 pm and was not able to cast his/her vote not till 6:10 pm, does that vote become null and void? I am definitely not a fan of the CJ but I am pleased with his commentary on common sense. Laws CANNOT be written for every circumstance, in some instances commonsense dictates that we temporarily depart from exactness and replace with what might be best suited for that situation without abrogating the spirit of the application of the law. Another cause for worry is Kamla’s assertion that she was “winning” at 6:00 p.m. I have often hear Kamla spoke about obeah and magic and witchcraft during the campaign but I never detected that she raised the magic wand and bingo! she knew who was winning at 6:00 pm. Such an argument is for fools and illiterates. Numbers are called in by districts. As they come in they reflect what has been counted, certified and passed for reporting. It is foolhardy to assume that UNC districts come in first and PNM comes in last. NO! no! no! my friends, numbers are called when the districts release those numbers. Kamla know this very well, so for her to use that stupid excuse is only to fool illiterate people. I can’t see much coming out of this argument.
Obviously, the job of the EBC is to ensure that elections are free and fair.
Elections are fair if they reflect the will of the people. Therefore, any discretion exercised by the EBC must err, if at all, on the side of allowing, not denying, the right to vote.
Where there is act of God, riot, insurrection, etc., that could reasonably be considered to be such as might affect the ability to vote of a large portion of the electorate, through no fault on their part, the EBC, in its sole discretion, as provided for under Section 71 of the Constitution, clearly has both the right and the duty to exercise such discretion.
There is no duty imposed on the EBC for prior consultation with any political party, or any candidate, contesting the election, before it exercises such discretion. Indeed, it would be massively impractical on the day of the election, for the EBC to engage in a consultative process with political parties, that might well degenerate into legal and constitutional litigation. Even the Judiciary could be brought into it, and there could well be a war of injunctions. If the EBC consults with one, there is a constitutional requirement of equality before the law, that would require that it consult also with all. With six or seven parties contesting the election, that would take us into the realm of the absurdly impractical.
The Constitutional provision of Section 71 got it exactly right, in my opinion. The EBC has been given, and wisely so, the duty and the authority to do exactly what it did, when inclement weather reasonably could have resulted in many voters arriving at polling stations too late to cast their vote.
In exercising that discretion, the EBC could obviously act sua sponte (on its own initiative), as it did. Lawyers are allergic to judges acting sua sponte. For reasons of appearing to be fair, it is usually the case that a judge in a court of law does not act sua sponte in a way that may *appear* calculated to benefit one of the contending parties before the court. The case of the EBC is different. There, the voters as a collective are the ones whose interest the EBC is duty bound to protect. But note carefully: the EBC of course may consider and act on the petitions of candidates or political parties, but they are the only authority that may and must consider the interests of the otherwise voiceless voter. Therefore, it is a good thing, although different from courtroom practice, for the EBC to act sua sponte in the interests of fulfilling its electoral mandate under the Constitution.
In this, it matters not whose political ox may be gored from one election to the next. What is sauce for the goose this time may well be sauce for the gander the next. But the secrecy of the ballot is such that one may in fact never know whether it is a case of goose or gander, if the EBC is impartially carrying out its mandate.
In any case, it is quite simply impossible to know who would have been winning at 6 p.m., as many analysts have already opined. Private exit polls are of no concern to the EBC. If it were a proceeding in a court of law, it would be an unwise judge who would give credence to such a claim, or even take “judicial notice” of it, as litigation in this case would end up urging. Certainly all the private election polls favouring the UNC were radically wrong. And there is no reason to suppose that the UNC would have got it right as to the state of the poll at 6 pm.
Even if the UNC were right on that, and had some unarguable way to know it, it still would behoove the EBC, as the voice of the voiceless voter, to act sua sponte, as it did, to ensure that the inclement weather did not lead to the disenfranchisement of the many voters who would, or merely could in the EBC’s sole judgement, have been affected.
This petition of Mrs. Persad-Bissessar is indeed frivolous and vexatious. It is without merit because: (1) the EBC’s action was well and reasonably motivated in the circumstances, and was calculated to err, if at all, on the side of fulfilling its mandate to ensure that the election was free and fair, and that a large share of the electorate was not disenfranchised due to circumstances beyond their control — the inclment weather; (2) it is quite simply impossible for the UNC to sustain the claim that they were damaged as a result of the EBC’s action; and (3) in any case, if the UNC lost because more people voted than otherwise might have been the case, could hardly be the grounds for complaint, since the result was to a democratic good, not an anti-democratic technicality, as the UNC in effect seek to get the benefit of.
Hes Kian, it is a matter of common sense I think. The facts are on the side of the EBC. The law is also on the side of the EBC. Having neither the facts nor the law on its side, the UNC is calling the other side names: they are casting a calumny on the EBC by calling them PNM stooges. That’s their real claim. Likely it will resonate with a large share of the 40% of the electorate who voted for them. But their litigation will rest entirely on an anti-democratic technicality seeking to water down the EBC’s wisely given mandate under the Constitution.
Their gambit will fail, but not before it adds to the divisiveness abroad in the land.
But be all that as it may, God is very much in control. When we, His children, cry out for His mercy, He will always hear, have mercy upon us, and answer our cry. Let us now return unto His law, and keep the Covenant.
May Yahweh bless us all with peace and tranquility.
“Wherefore, O king, let my counsel be acceptable unto thee, and break off thy sins by righteousness, and thine iniquities by shewing mercy to the poor; if it may be a lengthening of thy tranquillity.” (Daniel 4:27)
My point of concern is the count started at 7.pm, so it was premature to say that her party was in the lead at 6.pm. It goes back to the saying when one’s speak always remember that their is intelligent people out their listening.
R.B, your assertion in giving credence to the saying, “It goes back to the saying when one’s speak always remember that their is intelligent people out their listening.” is very much on target as we the observers watch those who are elected to serve us. The past five years we had the very worst experience of governance yet, the communication coming from them was how much they achieved in fulfilling their mandate. We were even given facts and figures to prove their assertions but the only reality we realized is that their performance was taking us down a slippery path to failure. Every aspect of our lives has been politicized and caused a cancerous effect on our discourse with one another. The EBC is the last agency we want to bring into this kind of bachanaal, total isolation from politics is the preservation of our democracy. The brewing battle over the Penal campus has unearthed yet another character in the person of the Chancellor of UWI, professor Clement Sankat. In the ensuing war of words emanating from Max Richards comments, he boldly stated that the project in Penal is not about politics, yet when given a chance to explain, his explanation can be interpreted very political. He said in reply, “As in all relationships, the challenge is to find the balance so that one partner does not dominate the other.”. The three telling words here are “balance”, “challenge” and “dominate”. If those words are matched with the politics of the UNC, we would in fact see the face of politics as is practiced at UWI by some of its professionals (if they might be so described). This means that UWI was very much a part of the political campaign that we just experienced. Even its polling suggested that preference was given to the UNC. So who are we kidding?
“It goes back to the saying when one’s speak always remember that their is intelligent people out their listening.”
Logic is not a strong suit of the Brahmin class in T&T. When you have followed the contributions of our resident 2 in this blog you soon become accustomed to its absence in their output.
Much has been said about Professor Max Richard’s statement regarding the Campus in Penal. The word “biased” has been used to describe the statement made by the ex-president but the question is, is the construction of a law school really a priority? Was the school built of out need or was it built out of pride? One should not be too quick to judge my questions as being “biased”, because what I am about to state is not that we should not build a school in south but rather what discipline/s are we most in need of? During the course of the past five years we have experienced a shortage of doctors, nurses and health professionals but never have I heard that there is a shortage of lawyers. If anything most people believe that lawyers go dime a dozen and no such shortage exist. So, I ask the question again, why a law school. Where was the debate or public consultation to spend tax payers money to build a law school? It is my humble belief that had the government and UWI engage the public in the need for a new medical school, most really won’t care where it is built. I too I’m a product of the deep south and I know first hand the need to have access to quality education in close vicinity. The point here is that we should not be talking about biases but “need” is a more appropriate term in discussing the campus in Penal. Those who are quick to call the ex president bias, can they truly state the objectives of building a law school in the south? There is every need for a proper nursing school, were the project to build a medical school, I doubt that there would be objections. There is need to build a family court and juvenile court house and may be just maybe it should be converted for this use instead of teaching law. The University of Trinidad and Tobago was constructed because there was a need to have highly qualified technical education to supply our energy and business sector. Let me ask another question, what sector of our economy need another law school to advance our economy? The fact of the matter is that this was Kamla’s way of saying that she made a contribution to higher education without necessarily providing the need for it. Why is it more important to pursue wants and neglect needs? It seems that this is what is happening here. Those opposed are chastising the ex-president just because Sankat and Kamla built it. On the other hand I am sure, were it to be a medical school, juvenile court house or family court house, the public would be more approving and we wouldn’t have this talk about biases.
I hate to admit it, but I agree with Kian on this one. Lawyers are dime a dozen in T&T and unfortunately when a good one is needed, they import from England.
I do agree with both of you, as our generation used to question and get the phonetics of ‘liar..r’ instead of lawyer. To take the point further John Donaldson Institute and SFTI were designated to introduce programs that would be supportive to the energy sector. Then they became under the umbrella of COSTATT and now absorbed into UTT, name change for what purpose, why? The south belt is rich in agriculture and petroleum resources and the need to support those sectors with desired academic programs would be desirable. The faculty of Agriculture as well as Agriculture Economics are well established at UWI, St. Augustine. Should then there be a shared partnership with UTT taking care of the technology aspect of agriculture at the Penal campus? The thrust of placing a campus of UWI at Penal is based on accessibility to tertiary education for all citizens. However for law it becomes odd when there are other valued disciplines that can be offered.
BIG, Blatant LIE, indians who make up the bulk of u.w.i. st. Auagustine also make up the bulk of debe and penal so if geography is the criteria for acess to all, why not put a university in dominant african areas because they(africans) seem not to have equal ‘access’ to u.w.i. st. Augustine. TRUTH: ITS A RACIST SECTARIAN AGENDA. All the land surrounding the new campus will be filled with indian business interests and increase the value of their land and quality of life. Their is an ominous hindu cabal in UWI that turned into the H.U.W.I. which seeks to (just like their ancestors in a reversed position of course) dominate the intellectual thrust of the university to be an arm of the UNC…remember it is bhoe tewarie who was the former president of the university and it was he who singled out and placed the now infamous jaishima leladharsingh on a state board dealing with the most expensive real estate in trinidad chqguaramas…remember how those african farmers were being treated..even raffique shah pointed out that bhoe and jaishima are allegedly best buddies and therefore he must have known of jaishima’s mindset towards africans. Another insidious thrust is to dominate all the faculties of prestige & keep africans out as much as possible…this is one of the reasons the UTT was created to provide another educational avenue for those scorned by a the H.U.W.I. but unfortunately the unc for the past five years recreated the same racist discriminatory structure within the then U.T.T. just as the H.U.W.I so right now we have a H.U.T.T. & a H.U.T.T. that ultimately fall under sat’s ‘guidance’
The Chief Magistrate, in granting leave to the UNC to proceed with its petition challenging the decision of the EBC to extend polling from 6 pm to 7 pm, because of inclement weather on polling day, has effectively ruled that the petition is not frivolous and vexatious, but merits further hearing. See today’s dailies.
This flies in the face of common sense, even granting that the bar is set very low for considering matters such as this. The nugget of a possible argument that might have rescued the petition from being dismissed with prejudice, and without further hearing, is that statute law provides that polling shall be conducted between the hours of 6 am and 6 pm on polling day. Therefore the principle of law to be decided is whether and to what extent the EBC may exercise the discretion clearly provided it under the Constitution.
Very well. This is a matter that calls for some reflection.
I address this, not as a lawyer, because I’m not. But I do claim some ability to reason, same as lawyers do. And I do claim more than a passing familiarity with the laws of logic, if only as mere engineer.
It is well to establish at the outset that Reason and Logic are not one and the same. Reason uses Logic. But Logic may proceed very well without Reason, to arrive at quite unreasonable conclusions. Garbage in, garbage out, is the principle here, as every software engineer knows. Logic is reasoning from premises (assumptions) to conclusions. But Logic itself cannot establish the premises (assumptions) to use. Establishing the right assumptions requires Reason, which must generally require the exercise of Common Sense.
Those who are trained in the Supreme Law, i.e. the Law of God, learn well the precepts that should be brought to bear in the proper exercise of Reason.
“The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.” (Psalm 14:1)
“The law of Yahweh is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of Yahweh is sure, making wise the simple.” (Psalm 19:7)
With the guidance of the Supreme Law, the common man, exercising “common sense”, is made wise. Contrarily, one learned in the law, but without the guidance of the Supreme Law, soon demonstrates the Dickensian truism that the law is an ass!
This may well be the crux of the matter. In the hands and heart of people who are not learned in the Supreme Law, the exercise of mere Logic, leads to one legal absurdity after another. The recent decision of the U.S. Supreme Court, legalizing same-sex “marriage”, is one such example. As if one can really legalize that which God has deemed illegal under His Supreme Law! But that is another discussion…
Well did the Chief Justice speak when he called for more Common Sense. Common sense exercises Reason, with Logic put firmly in its proper position of servant, not master.
This is where we are with this UNC petition. In my opinion, and with all due respect to the Chief Magistrate, it remains a frivolous and vexatious petition, laden with puerile Logic, while reflecting neither Reason nor Common Sense.
Here is the issue in a nutshell as I see it: Statute law provides that the elections are to be held between the hours of 6 am and 6 pm. Ergo, so goes the puerile Logic, the EBC erred in mandating an extension to 7 pm. Ergo, continuing with the exercise in puerile Logic, the election should be declared null and void, and the entire poll repeated.
Reason and Common Sense dictate something different. The Constitution, in its Wisdom, grants sole discretion to the EBC to conduct elections. Yes, there is wisdom in the rule establishing set opening and closing hours (6 am and 6 pm are obviously fine) for the poll. But there is also wisdom in allowing EBC the latitude, in its sole discretion, to vary these times.
Where a creature of the Constitution is granted authority to exercise discretion, Reason and established precept dictate that the exercise of such discretion may be challenged only where exercised in an arbitrary or capricious manner, contrary to the express or implied purpose of the discretion granted. Where the discretion is exercised in a manner neither arbitrary nor capricious, and moreover designed to further the purpose — in this case a free and fair poll reflecting the will of the electorate — then there can be no foul. Reason might say, as it does in sports, “no harm, no foul”.
This should have been the threshold test. Was there a harm done? Clearly the answer to that is no. For people were *allowed* to vote, that might otherwise have been turned away, due only to the effects of the inclement weather.
The idea, as already established, that the UNC was harmed because, though winning at 6 pm, it lost by 7 pm, is ludicrous on its face. The harm is impossible to establish because there was no count of votes at 6 pm. And even if, arguendo, the claim were true, it still would be no harm. That could only be established if as a result of the exercise of its discretion, the EBC delivered an electoral result that manifestly was not “fair”, i.e. did not reflect the clear will of the electorate.
Quite the opposite, had there been large numbers of voters turned away due to the effects of the inclement weather, the Common Sense charge would be that the EBC, by staying within a statutory strait-jacket, would have delivered a result which valued an anti-democratic Logical technicality above the constitutional duty to adhere to the democratic principle of delivering a free and fair poll.
So here is the nub of the matter: Should the Logic strait-jacket of Statute Law take precedence over the Reason and Common Sense of Constitutional Law? The answer to that is already well established. The Constitution is supreme. No law of parliament — statute law — may have the effect of over-riding an authority or power granted under the Constitution.
Therefore, as already opined, there can be no merit to the UNC challenge. Not only was there no harm done, therefore no foul, but indeed the EBC ought to be commended for its exercise of discretion in the circumstances.
Having said that, there is a larger question that may well deserve attention — the only, and dubious, merit that might attach to the UNC petition:
Should Parliament take away, necessarily through an amendment to the Constitution, the discretion of the EBC as the UNC petition is effectively urging? Reason and Common Sense again dictate the answer. As Kian has well argued, no Statute law can anticipate every contingency of emergency, exigency, riot, insurrection, calamity, act of God, etc. that the EBC might have to contend with on an election day. Therefore it is reasonable, prudent, wise, and good Common Sense, as the Constitution now provides, to grant such sole discretion to the EBC. If anything good comes out of this UNC petition, let it be that lawyers are shamed into using Reason and Common Sense, and cease the kind of puerile Logic that makes an ass out of the law. And let the EBC be further established in the prudent exercise of its constitutional discretion for which it should be praised, not challenged, on this occasion.
Be all that as it may, may the Most High spare us from dragged-out litigation in this matter. That certainly would be a vexation on the spirit of the nation. And may the Most High continue to expose the wicked, and protect the innocent in all these matters.
“In my opinion, and with all due respect to the Chief Magistrate, it remains a frivolous and vexatious petition, laden with puerile Logic, while reflecting neither Reason nor Common Sense.”……..Yoruba
This is not a blog. This is a dissertation that every student of law should read and absorb before contemplating
entering law school or being engaged in the practice of law. What Yoruba has done for us is to breakdown logic, reason and common sense into its simplest form and walked us through the frivolity of this petition. As one unfamiliar with the intricacies of law myself, I too find it vexatious that the Chief Magistrate allowed this case for further litigation and waste of taxpayers money. What I would like to see added to verdicts like this one, is for the magistracy to append constitutional and commonsensical opinions, of why such lunacy should be allowed to use up the valuable time of our studied judiciary. Yoruba stated it best when he said “Establishing the right assumptions requires Reason, which must generally require the exercise of Common Sense.” Imbedded, but not implied or stated in Kamla’s pursuit of this matter, is her desire to make this exercise a racial rejection of her. Evident too, from her continued challenges to the ascent of Dr. Keith Christopher Rowley is the perception that Dr. Rowley does not deserve the prime ministership. Her actions are in compliance with the hindutva’s form of governance that she practised. In her campaign she emphasized that Dr. Rowley did
not possess the physical, psychological and perceptual image suited for that office. The narrative to that conclusion lies in the face of the accusations: (1) Dr. Rowley was too black to be prime minister; (2) placards posted in UNC constituencies asking it’s constituents to “keep your girl children away from Rowley”; (3) campaign strategies to “don’t address him as Dr. Rowley, address him as Rowley”; (4) use of Manning’ characterization that Dr. Rowley is a wajank, he is an angry man (a common characterization of the black man); (5) he is not fit to be prime minister; (6) parliamentary persecution of Dr. Rowley; (7) Dr. Rowley is a rapist; (8) Dr. Rowley’s father is a rapist and his mother was raped; (9) Dr. Rowley’s male off-prings are would-be rapists; (10) “Rowley is a fabricator and a liar”; (11) “Rowley is not fit to be prime minister”; (12) “Rowley has no plan” etc etc etc. These characterizations are not mere suggestions, they were meant to demean, denigrate, demonize, distrust, dislodge and de-humanize Dr. Rowley to the point where the electorate would reject him outrightly. With very few exceptions, other than PNM paraphernalia, were there ever published news or information stating Dr. Rowley’s true achievements. A child nurtured by caring grand parents, his early recognition as a child that education was the key to success who went on to win scholarships. A geologist by profession, a scientist and lecturer. Whilst I agree in politics there is competition, the demonization of Dr Rowley by Kamla went way beyond that. As Prime Minister she succeeded in going against the wishes of the people by removing him from sitting in the Parliament. To add insult to injury, Kamla may have over-spent the PNM by at least 30 – 1 in the electoral contest with nothing more to show other than being re-elected to her seat. This is the sign of a failed leader. With all this in mind and her failure at the polls to defeat him, Kamla’s only opening came in the incident of inclement weather and the EBC’s extension of the voting hours. In American football colloquialism, Kamla threw “a hail mary pass” (in the form of a petition to overturn the election) hoping that somehow against all odds, she would gather some traction to thwart Dr. Rowley’s victory. This in my humble opinion is the imbedded message in Kamla’s move.
Yoruba, the most important point about justright’s and the youtube post with Dr. Annamalai’s lecture is his revelation of the true, not so hidden mindset and beliefs of many of your fellow countrymen. Also, how these revelations relate to ethnic problems in T&T.He quoted directly from the bhagavad gita.Clearly the PNM didn’t exist 3000 years ago in india.race/ethnic problems in T&T must be analyzed through the lens of ingrained religious beliefs and offspring culture.Don’t miss the focus point.where does the racism come from?this problem cannot be ‘fixed’ by ‘good governance’.the question is how do dark skinned africans ‘cope’ with this reality? Keep begging for ‘unity’? Please like me pleeeeeease (patrick’s caroni land giveaway).
Another point that slips by is that both christians and muslims (indian) were ‘hindus’ at one time or another, whom coverted to escape their low status (untouchability) within the chatu varna (caste) system but they brouht the caste mentality (racist,color coded mindset) into their new religions so indian christians and muslims (in india) are often times just as racist as the hindus i.e. seperate churches,pews and cemetarys for different castes/varnas.These behaviours, ironically,is what they ran away frpm in the first place. Now, do u see a paralell or parallels with thse realities in india in trinidad and guyana? …Fiji,mauritius,kenya,uganda,south africa, america etc. Coincidence?
I watched all of Dr. Annamalai’s video presentation. I did not fail to catch the main point about caste oppression. The Brahminists did in fact do a thorough mind job on the low-castes and dalits. So thorough that it has lasted some close to 2,600 years!
Is there a cautionary tale there for all who must now deal with Brahminists outside of India? Of course. And I have not missed that, rather have written about it in many of my blogs.
I’m sorry the impression I may have given in how I responded to the Annamalai video. I focused there on the error of the Afrocentrist discourse which falsely uses skin colour (black) and land-mass (“Afrika”) as determinative of identity, and the basis on which to “fight the power”.
My simple point is that that is not the way, and therefore doomed to failure. To get to that which is True, we must return to Holy Writ. There is no other Way, I’m afraid.
The simple fact is that we the “Negro” are of the seed of Jacob. We were enslaved pursuant to prophecy and as punishment for our failure to observe the Covenant; see Deuteronomy 28:15-68.
When we return to and keep the Covenant, neither the Brahminists nor any other people will have any power over us. Who God bless no man can curse. But we can and have cursed ourselves as a result of disobedience. Nevertheless, our punishment was for a set time, after which it is we who will rise to rule.
“But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.” (Daniel 7:18)
Our rule must be in righteousness. That means, and it is prophesied, that we “shall know the Truth, and the Truth shall” make us free. (John 8:32)
Also: “But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.” (Revelation 10:7)
The mystery of God is principally and notably His own children, we the “Negro”, that He drove into captivity for our own disobedience. But He will deliver us from that captivity as promised throughout Scripture (e.g. Deutoronomy 30:3).
To rise up from that captivity we must indeed do what the Afrocentrists are doing, i.e. search for the keys that explain our condition as a people, and search out the keys that explain the behaviour of our captors and would-be captors. I give the Afrocentrists all full credit for their contributions. But they must not fall in love with their ideologies, especially of skin-colour and land-mass-ism. The commitment must be to Truth.
That search for Truth will lead us right back to Holy Writ, the Book of Yahweh. That, we will be some of us shocked to learn, was written by our forefathers, the sons of Abraham through Jacob, a “Negro” and the father of all the black-skinned and woolly-haired (Daniel 7:9, 10:6; Revelation 1:14-15) “Negroes” who God raised up as prophets and Apostles.
It is my job, as a Nazarite servant of Yahweh, to receive and transmit some of this knowledge. You may of course hear or forebear.
“For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie: though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not tarry. Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.” (Habakkuk 2:3-4)
One of the hurdles that we must cross in this walk of faith is to eschew hate, although our captivity has been a bitter one.
“Thou shalt not abhor an Edomite (includes Brahmins); for he is thy brother: thou shalt not abhor an Egyptian (Hamites); because thou wast a stranger in his land.” (Deuteronomy 23:7)
The Brahmin sons of Abraham are a branch of the Edomite seedline. We the sons of Jacob are their brother, for Esau (Edom) and Jacob (Israel), were twins, warring from the womb.
“And Yahweh said unto her (Rebekah), Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels…” (Genesis 25:23)
The matter is indeed involved. Nevertheless, we shall know the truth, and it shall make us free. Then will the kingdom be ours, in justice and righteousness.
May the Most High bring His Light of deliverance to all who seek His truth in sincerity and humility.
“Wherefore, O king, let my counsel be acceptable unto thee, and break off thy sins by righteousness, and thine iniquities by shewing mercy to the poor; if it may be a lengthening of thy tranquillity.” (Daniel 4:27)
I too I’m in agreement with Kian. It is time we all start thinking as Trinidadians and not Indians and Africans.
A little learning is a dangerous thing. There are many more factors involved in the interactions of human beings as evidenced by numerous social, anthropological, religious and psychological studies.
The negative preoccupation of many Africans with the caste system seems to be a convenient way of rationalizing the anti-Indian reactions of people of African descent in places where Hindus and Blacks interact. All human behavior cannot be explained away by using the caste as the conclusive tool of convenience and justification for racism.
Racism is a much more complex issue involving humans of every stripe.
Is colorism between Africans explained by the caste system?
TMan, you are who you are by what your dna says about you.
The caste beliefs system is a behavior that is over ten thousand years old and inculcated into the psyche of the intended victims, namely the descendants of Indian cultural, religious and ethnic domination. That is not easily eradicated by making political statements to the contrary. Please don’t blame African people for suggesting that the caste system is the reason for your behavior. Our physical characteristics does NOT determine how we behave. Our behavior is the outcome of the conditioning of our minds.
In this context, the caste system teaches that there is a superiority and inferiority of birth. Those born of the head are forever more intelligent and superior to those born of the shoulder; those born of the abdomen are superior to those born of the pelvic areas; those born of the pelvic are superior to those born of the knees and calves and ultimately those born under the category of the bottom of the feet are forever doomed to servitude, menial tasks and to bury the excrements of all those superior to them. Please don’t put that kind burden on the preoccupation of the African. That is not just history. It is religious nurturing, it religious philosophy, it is racial posturing,
it is man’s attempt to dominate man and psychologically damaging to one’s concept of himself. It is totally dishonest to call that anti-Indian. That is an Indian issue. The African merely echos his experience with this behavior. Africans, especially who hold positions of authority have historically felt a sense of guilt when the Indian accuses him of “being racial”. They succumb to that accusation by trying to prove otherwise and always on the loosing side of the argument. The last leader to become the “victim” of that characterization was unceremoniously booted out of office and destroyed his own party (Patrick Manning). In this cycle of things we have experienced the denigrating of Dr. Rowley attacking the color of skin, his sexual appetite, his anger, his physical unfitness for office and God knows the negatives placed at his feet. Dr. Rowley, as the rest of us will not succumb to that kind of caricature. You are in effect trying to tell us that you are a victim of African judgement and miscalculation of who you really are. We will NOT buy that. You are not victim, neither are we willing to have you be the determinator of who we are. There is much more to say on this while I await your reply.
Colourism among African peoples here in the new world (I.e. The Americas) is explained by 300 years of slavery and colonialism, dividing us, and therefore ruling us. Taking our culture away from us and therefore weakening us as a people here in the region. That methodology used by the colonialists (i.e. divide and rule) is also responsible for the kind of hatred among tribes that eventually brought about the slaughter in Rwanda.
Unfortunately the negative aspects of the history of a race of people does impact on the cultural norms of the present, and so colourism among Africans will continue unless our education system makes a greateer effort to impact upon this aspect of our culture.
The Caste system comes up when Africans contemplate the Indian Politician in power, not because of negative feelings toward Indians, but because it ”appears” that the caste system is deeply entrenched in the psyche of the Indian Politician and so prevents ”HER” from understanding that in a Cosmopolitan society it is immoral and unjust to completely ignore large sections of the population.IF the African had negative feelings towards Indians that ran that deep, we would not have given Kamla a chance in 2010. However having given her the chance, unfortunately she has proven right, some of the awful stereotypes that many African Trinidadians do have when it comes to the Indian Politician.
I will say again while the PNM is clearly an Afrocentric party, it is however responsible for creating the infrastructure that served everyone.
In my opinion Kamla’s UNC spent a great deal of time trying to create systems and procedures that would dis empower the African community. The run off vote is one example. I speak under correction, but I have heard that there was a plan afoot to create some sort of means testing for UWI, which of course would create a system of being able to choose who is deserving of attending UWI. Of course we know that means testing as a system can be legitimate and can work well in other places. However under Kamla’s UNC it would just be an excuse to prevent the African from attending UWI.
As I have previously said on this blog, the two leaders who were given a clear majority and mandate to rule this country i.e ANR Robinson and Kamla have had the most negative impact on race relations in Trinidad. They have both increased the level of mistrust among the Indian and African population for each other.
We have a long way to go to heal our country from the evil of both leaders. we have to hope that Dr. Rowley does not repeat the errors of the past. While we should not dwell on the past we must learn from the experiences of the past.
Hahaha ‘little learning’ is hilarious how tman (hindu nationalist) tries to thow persons educated in his philosophy “off the scent” by attacking their depth of knowledge.every non muslim who have never even touched the quor’an let alone read it KNOWS that muslims HATE alcohol and pork…similarly through generations of observing and interacting with ‘hindus’ dark skinned africans learned the hard way that there is a deep seated scorn and hatred for their phenotype in the indian community in particular hindus…now they are simply being educated on WHY! But along with the racism is this EXTREME culture of DISHONESTY & DECEIT that accompanies the racism. Too late tman the days of telling africans that “Doogala” simply means ‘mixed’…through scholarly research we found that
(1)Indian indentured labourers never spoke hindi (BIG LIE) they spoke bhojpouri dialect (ask trini lecturer in india peggy mohan)
(2)The term ‘Dòogala’ in bhojpouri never meant ‘indian/african mix’ (BIG LIE) actually ‘Doogqla’ means ‘child of a whore/prostitute’ , specifically in the context of (indian) having a child with someone lower in caste (africans).
Interestingly tman, the untouchables (dalits) like Dr.Annamalai have also been warning and educating africans in the US,caribbean etc. About the racism and dishonesty…are you saying the untouchables in india have only a ‘little learning’ and that they also don’t know what they are saying? LOL keep exposing your deceitful heart tman it is an interesting case study.
Tman would like africans to not analyze the scorn and downright racist hate that emanates from the indian community.he doesn’t want us to see through the lens of caste, which is actually hindu ideology. That is like telling sociologists to try to understand the racist mindset of nazis towards jews and non-whites without understanding the nazi ideology/religion (wholesale plagiarised from hinduism).This is like the wizard of oz “ignore the man behind the curtain”…but he is the one behind everything…in the case of indian racism…cadte/varna is the culprit and caste/varna is the spine of the hindu ideology.caste/varna is to hindus what the cross and holy trinity is to christians.it is the backbone of the belief system. They believe in inequality, not all humans are genetically/spiritually equal as evidejced by their skin colour (listen to the brahmin/pundit) admit this in the “india untouched” documentary. Your Lies don’t do well against facts tman.
The use of the Hindu caste system by the PNM during the election campaign on every type of media they could get their hands on to undermine and scandalize the PP with accusations of racism was totally disgraceful.
Africans are just as guilty as Indians for perpetuating the racist agenda in T&T. Some of the self righteous hypocrites on this Blog who repeatedly accuse Indians of caste stratification should examine their own souls to discover their reverse bigotry.
These detractors are great pretenders, spewing their racist vitriol as they as they hide behind some sort of victim syndrome.
They should cease and desist from using the caste system as their convenient tool.
Some of the most racist views on this Blog have been expressed by people who continuously clamor for getting rid of the PP.
There is no doubt that there is a racist element within the ranks of the PP, but it is quite noticeable that the reaction of many Afrocentric dissenters is just as objectionable.
You should be celebrating now that you have “taken back your country”, a slogan now adopted by Donald trump!From Rowley to Trump with pleasure.
When will the PNM apologists learn that real power is not political power?
Real power in any society is economic, educational and entrepreneurial advancement.
Political power provides psychological comfort. Economic and success in education feed families and enrich communities. Let’s spread this philospohy in Laventille and Belmont.
In the indian documentary “Indian Untouched”,the brahmin(pundit) explained in detail that skin colour is not considered ‘random’ according to the vedas (‘hindu’ scriptures) but rather as a result of one’s karma! Imagine that…so, bad karma results in dark(er) skin and good karma results in light(er) skin…Dark skin is evil and light skin is ‘pure’ and ‘divine’ according to hindu dogma.Also, closer to home, Author Ravindranath Maraj (born and raised in T&T) wrote a book titled “Death Of Guru” (available on amazon) which he ddetails his experiences as the son of a well known & respected pundit (brahmnin) among ‘hindus’in T&T and also was himself a pundit in training from a very young age. He descibes his an encounter with an indian homeless person who he was fearful of being TOUCHED by,because he says the indian guy was dark skinned and THEREFORE LOW CASTE, whom he knew could “POLLUTE” him by mere touch. Now, if this is the admitted mindset among themselves, how are africans NOT supposed to be mindful of this as a MAJOR factor for the ethno/socio/political issues with indians? Eh? Also quoting from his book “Death Of A Guru” says that and i quote “Most Hindus Despise Black People”. Now, why did he say ‘most’ and not ‘all’? Remember sita gajadharsingh-nanga and her dispute with sat over his ‘ALLEGED’ officially racially exclusive practices at the tunapuna hindu school? well, this is a case where i would call her a ‘lapsed’ hindu meaning she doesn’t understand the tenets of her belief system completely or she would have agreed with it. Remember that the ‘HINDUS’ that came to T&T to cut cane as labourers were UNTOUCHABLES (dalits) which 7s actually lower than shudras (lowcaste) of which ‘coolie’ is actually a subcaste group. They were SLAVES to the uppercaste ‘hindus’ and deliberately denied access to the ‘holy’ books such as the bhagavad gita(under threat of violence).Therefore they nevr really understood (1800’s) the inticacies of the belief system.However, whilst leaving india they changed their given names to mimic uppercaste names (adding on high ranking names like singh etc.) And they have since then been able to buy the gita and adopt the uppercaste mentality towards those they consider lower in caste than themselves based on our hair,skin and facial features. Note that many indians are much darker than the average african so they then revert to hair and facial features to establish caste/varna superiority.
Anyone who challenges the warped, caste/varna minded lie/status quo that indians are innocent and loving of africans and it was eric williams and the pnm that started racism in t&t (Big Lie) is a pnm…google “african & indian consciousness” written by Dr. Tony Martin, an authentic scholar, lawyer, historian, teacher (No false papers). He cited and quoted indian trinidadian politicians such as H.P. Singh of the DLP who publicly stated that as hindus, they believe in caste (varna) and that Africans are beneath the level of untouchability in the caste/varna system…on political platforms in front of the press he said these things…but back then they weren’t as politically correct/clever as they are now… now they pretend that they don’t even know about caste because the world knows that caste/varna is among other things, anti-black racism and they don’t want any criticism of their religion. Basdeo panday, kamla, devant, sat, loonel seukeran, badhase sagan-maharaj, bhoe tewarie, prakash et al all claim to be brahmins…is it a coincidence that the indian politics in T&T seem to be power structured like a mandir (hindu temple) with brahmins as leaders, yellow/orange as party colours (these colours have significance to ‘hindus’) But the denial of caste/varna by “Tman” and others is based on their belief that non indians can’t possibly know the truth enough to intellectually stand up to them. Also, according to indian guyanese moses seenarine, the jhandis flags that hindus place all over the place are signfiers of caste status i.e. the more you have the higher your caste/varna status. But they expect us not to know or find out. times have changed Tman, africans no longer have to be hindered by the language barrier we can research your beliefs/practices for ourselves and learn the truth behind your hateful & scornful, deceitful behaviour. Our best resource is our brothers in india the dalits a.k.a the untouchables, their best academics and lecturers, social activists even the regular ones who tell us and expose all the nasty little FACTS and truths that you don’t want us to know. Check out the book “Why i am not a hindu” written by a dalit scholar.
The ancient Greek philosopher Aristotle summed it up neatly when he noted “The more you know, the more you know you don’t know.” But he wasn’t the first. A couple of centuries earlier, the Chinese philosopher Confucius had observed, “Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance.”
To focus exclusively on the caste system and to latch on to the thoughts of a few Dalit scholars as explanations for Indian/African conflicts demonstrate a very narrow and anti-intellectual view.
I repeat: relations between the races are much or complex.The interactions of human beings as evidenced by numerous social, anthropological, religious and psychological studies go beyond the simplistic notions which you present here.
Lol imagine that “tman” (hindu nationalist) accuses me of “latching on to the thoughts of ‘a FEW’ dalit scholars” and yet he quotes one greek philosopher and one chinese philosopher in a wildly general manner…isn’t two the definition of ‘a few’? But tman doesn’t confuse me, i understand that his beliefs allow him to shift the ‘Intellectual goalpost’ whenever he can’t brainwash you with false logic…hundreds of millions of dalits are firm on their oppression under hinduism and its varna ideology that’s why they renamed themselves ‘dalit’ as opposed to what caste hindus call them ‘untouchable’…dalit meas broken & crushed which they want the world to know they are treated because of hindu theology (caste/varna) but it is important to realize that as much as he/she tries to hide the reality of hindu mindset, tman’s callous dismissive attitude to the plight of the dalits and african’s who are victims of hindu/indian racism is ironically a hallmark of the caste/varna mentality i.e. deceit, intolerance and lack of compassion/humanity to those deemed inferior in his warped ideology.
But what about the trinidad former brahmin/pundit in training ravindranath maraj in his book titled “Death of a Guru”? Please deny him also …i want to lure you deeper and deeper into your own depth of deceit and depravity to expose you…every fact or proof that stands firmly in front of your dishonest religious/political posturing is deemed ‘wrong’, ‘misunderstood’ or ‘untrue’. well u must mistake me for the africans who you meet in the unc,…you know the ones that Jaishima Leladharsingh spoke about…”EASY to sway” “gullible” etc… eh tman? No no no…not one of those…i’m the one you hate because you cannot control intellectually or otherwise…i’m the one you hate because i expose your lies and racist mindset with actual, solid references that others watching this blog can also learn the truth about you from the horse’s mouth. i know it angers you when i give these references that you can’t CREDIBLY refute…you can say what you want…the facts don’t LIE.
Btw lol a number of indian scholars (non dalits) have even identified certain ‘caste/varna markers’ if you will…certain acts of practices that are clear indicators and promotions of caste/varna ideology…the RAMLEELA FESTIVAL is one of them… imagine what is the ultimate message of the imagery depicted in that event dark skin vs light skin just like divali? Yes, but they cleverly pretend it’s metaphorical. What about ‘juta’. Africans who are private to hindu practices notice that there are ‘special’ utensils, cups and plates in the house for them that nobody else uses…these are called JUTA cups/plates etc. What is juta Tman? And why is it that hindus/indians are afraid of being infected? How come only africans have this “juta”? Juta is spiritual pollution like what mr. Ravindranath maraj described… dark skin is treated like a plague that is inherit with bad karma that another person (higher caste/varna) can be ‘spoiled’ with. We also notice that while africans rush to buy indian food all day all year, particularly during divali, eid and indian arrival day, hindus avoid buying food prepared by africans… of course, many africans are so dense they do not realize or analyze this startling disparity in behaviour. We must buy from you but you shouldn’t buy from us…that is the caste minded definition of Fair i.e. 99 for me and 1 for you…
Alyssa, would you advise that African schookids should be warned that Indos are not fit to be friends because they are from a racist race?
You put a link to a video about India. Do you consider that all Indos are heirs to an inescapable heritage of racism, backwardness and immorality?
Would you agree with labeling local whites similarly based on the Atlantic slave trade, the Holocaust, the Spanish Inquisition, racism, colonialism, apartheid, Jim Crow and other unsavoury aspects of the last 500 years of white history?
LOL, BM you must have mistaken me from one of those scaredycat africans in T&T who are shaken by your nasty, stink comments intended to shock me into backstepping from the salient points that i made, the FACTS that i provide… NOT this one…keep saying them…i neither have to apologize neither rationalize your behaviour…it’s just interesting for me to study how caste/varna ideology has warped your mind…in fact i’m expecting you to be a teacher in a public school or some other similarly strategic role that spews that venom.But, to the other viewers of this blog..have you noticed how hindu nationalists like Tman & BM expose a mindset within the indian community that anytime the bad behaviours are criticized (not the individuals) instead of coming out and joining the condemnation on the principle that “wrong is wrong, and right is right” what you in fact get is pure hate and attacks designed to psychologically beat into submission and scare you of the topic? Well time for that done! Imagine a grown man/woman like ‘BM’ making these childish reverse psychology antics because he doesn’t think africans should have the right to question his/her behaviour that is actually quite hurtful to africans. When did I say anything about telling african children not to play with indians? Anytime the bad behaviour is criticized you get “alyuh hate indian people” and for decades africans would retreat from the topic professing their undying love for indians and this is why people like “Tman” and “BM” think that the strategy will work every time….LOL..i wonder what other strategy they’ll try when they realize it ent wokin no more? Let’s see…
Come on “BM” i know it’s impossible for your caste/varna mind but..stop being racist!
LOL…sit back and enjoy my criticisms because they ain’t stopping…
In Trinidad, we are accustomed to “Indian” names like Roshan Ali, Zaida Singh etc.
Mixed Hindu/Muslim names are practically unthinkable in India and are commonplace here.
Can we at least acknowledge that some progress has been made with regard to Indo-Trinis moving ahead of their ancestors, and ahead of today’s India, in their path towards elimination of old divisions of creed and caste?
Every discussion about ethnicity in Trinidad seems to generate long, erudite discussions encompassing all the wrongs of Indians in India, Trinidad and around the world, making it clear that each and every Indo-Trini is inescapably shackled to this catalogue of iniquity.
One seldom sees such exhaustive lists of wrongs and abuses committed in Europe, Africa, the Middle East or China being brought into discourse about the Trini descendants of these ethnic groups.
By the way, with regard to Ramleela:
Ravana was a Brahmin, Rama wasn’t.
Rama was described as dark-colored, Ravana wasn’t.
So, what have we got? The victory of a dark-skinned non-Brahmin over an evil Brahmin, celebrated annually in Trinidad.
Ramlila commemorates the victory of Rama over Hindu’s idea of a demon king Ravana. In Trinidad, certain Hindu pundits explained that black people came about when Ram (portrayed as white or light blue white and a god) burnt Ravana (portrayed as black and a devil who was a king from Sri Lanka’s darker hued people). Different Hindu sects play this story differently but the dominant Hindu story in Trinidad is racist and void of historical context.
Any serious examination of India’s history would show how more indigenous black Indian practices and deities were appropriated by Aryans who placed themselves at the helm of Indian culture/religion.
Wow, I’m just reading this post after i posted about ramlila…good to see others know about that … good posting justright. One thing though…it isn’t t&t hindus alone or some hindus…it is the religion and culture anywhere hindus reside…it is the religion…there is no “good” or “bad” hindu in the context of racism/caste/varna it is the religion…fiji, mauritius, uganda, south africa, kenya all have the same theme…deep hatred of african features and skin colour…the more european you look, the more they like you the more african you look…well you get the pictures, however, because they realized that outside india the laws and culture is very different in moral standpoint and against racism(at least politically and religiously) they have taken a united position to politicize their religion and customs i.e. deliberately lie and mislead non hindus into believing that their beliefs aren’t hateful and scornful of dark skin and african facial features/hair texture…in fact anything that may make them ‘look bad’ they LIE about…
e.g. everybody knows indians i.e. hindu beliefs hold the woman in contempt and a slave to the man, yet they do all sorts of intellectual gymnastics and lawyerisms to obfuscate this truth in any sort of discussion. Check out the book “Death Of A Guru” by ravindranath maraj and the movie based on real life titled “Bandit Queen” or the recent worldwide acclaimed documentary “BBC’s India’s Daughter” and they tried to ban it and discredit FACTS!
“BM” i don’t want to break your heart or waste your racist propaganda time so let me give you a heads up….you can’t deceive me…try another african…maybe rodney charles or kwasi mutema. in fact try the whole of njac…those are africans you would enjoy interacting with. I don’t need you to tell me about ramleela and what it is… remember when jack warner was breaking up the highway reroute movement’s camp? One of them, a hindu called jack warner “Rawan”…on camera…even the then ag ramoogan and others said that calling jack rawan was RACIST…lol.. why did other hindus in the then government admit that calling a black skinned african like jack a rawan is racist? Were they lying? Rawan is depicted as a black skinned demon as in hinduism demons are dark and most of the gods are light skinned! You see there is an ominous vilification of dark skin in hinduism and knowing that many africans didn’t know the language or religon in detail many indians openly, secretely call africans “Rawan” which is a hindu coded way of saying nigger/black skinned devil. But the cat is out the bag and all over universities around the world, all over the information superhighway a.k.a intrnet and many indians can’t deal with this so they keep reverting to the old technique of denying the truth about hinduism, hoping that creating doubt would obfuscate what they hope is a lack of depth of understanding…in some cases hindus actually don’t even understand their own religion just like many christians and muslims don’t study their religion they just copy their parents and family’s lead. That is why only brahmins are supposed to decipher knowledge via the ‘holy scriptures’
in fact hinduism is rooted in india’s history…the brahmins and uppercaste represent the descendents of the light skinned peoples who subjugated and took over india whilst enslaving its original inhabitants i.e. descendents of east AFRICANS who migrated and settled in india FIRST…the untouchables are merely a representation of the original inhabitants of india…so hinduism depicts the light skinned newcomers as noble (aryans) and the original inhabitants as devils, rawans…FACT ramleela is based on events that took place in what is now called sri lanka…FACT many untouchables consider Rawan and kali as their actual ancestors and abhor the depiction of them as evil…
didn’t think we could learn this much eh “BM”? Lol LOL…the cat is out of the bag….the horses have already bolted out of the stables…good luck trying to put them back in.
And, Alyssa, if the majority of Africans in Trinidad were to take your position with regard to East Indians, this would create a major deterrent to integration and creolization of the East Indians. Why would you want to integrate with a community that judges you as “one of those nasty, racist Indians” rather than seeing you as an individual?
BM, at least pretend to have integrity…did you see any post of mine referring to indians as “nasty” please cite where i said that…or don’t…your agenda is as transparent as your caste mind
You did use the word “nasty”, and the word “racist”, in reference to Indians, but not the exact phrase. So, I erred in using the quotation marks— was trying to encapsulate the attitude, not misattribute a quote.
No doubt you will see this as typical Indian deviousness and mendacity.
I apologize anyway.
I hereby ask the moderator to delete my post.
Wow, what hogwash…lol…look at the simplistic, token methodology that “BM”. Actually, this behaviour of indians in trinidad and india intermarrying has nothing to do with evolution from caste but a sign of being lapsed hindus and lapsed muslims. In other words many indians agree that ‘race’ or ethnicity is more important than strict religious code…those types maybe don’t even go to the mandir or mosque…they just have the names…this is actually WORSE because these same people who “BM” claims have transcended racism and caste will never marry or have relations with a dark skinned thick headed african…so an indian muslim or christian would rather marry a fundamentalist hindu than a fellow african christian or african muslim! This is an open secret among indians even in india…so the ‘progress’ in india is somewhat parallel to T&T..ergo they still racist but from a slightly different angle. Shah Rukh Khan who mysteriously bought and owns T&T’s red streel cricket team under the unc in the past five years…shah is married to a hindu actress…butttt look at his profession and persona, he acts in and supports a caste infested, racist bollywood and its racist caste minded movies…only light skinned indiians everywhere…is he following strict islamic principles by supporting these movies? The answer is no, because he is what you call a lapsed muslim. I even read an article in the india press where the author pointed out that one thing indian muslims and hindus agree on (amidst all the bloodshed) is that light skin/varna is of utmost important! So give me a break! Similarly pay attention to the type of african descendents that indian men and women ‘unite’ with…they litterally extract the lightest skinned srraightest haired ones they can find and then spin around and say…”see???.. we like africans, we’re not racist!” Give me a break…you see its the fact that with all this energy and time indians take to HIDE and obfuscate their naked racism/obsession with caste/varna and even willing to cross religious lines to get another straight haired group, it makes one wonder if they could have, they could have used 1/4 of that energy to love dark skinned kinky haired africans, but they cannot (vast majority) it is an ingrained caste/varna mentality that infected their culture as indians so that even if they are lapsed hindus they and the christian muslims, christians share this racist culture which is an offshoot of chatu-varna a.k.a caste/varna mentality. Mind you there are indians who made/make the effort to completely oppose this racism, but they are a very small minority…i couldn’t know hot water without feeling cold water and similarly i know there ARE indians who aren’t racist, buttt they are a small minority…and because the rejection of racism is a rejection of their ancestral religion and culture, they quietly support it. Also as many indian sociologists have pointed out, in trinidad , guyana etc where indians are faced with a dark skinned african population, they choose to foerego their own persknal divisions of caste and religion in favour 8f a un7ted racist stanc2 against africans i.e. they have adapted their caste mindset in such a way that they consider all indians as a whole caste and sfricans as one whole caste in which they are superior caste. so among indians there will be high and low caste but they all consider themselves superior to africans.all this analysis is shocking to many indians because africans very rarely publicly show a depth if analysis of these issues and therefore have been spoilt into thinking africans cannot decipher their mentality and what is going on. Remember Jaishima Leladharsingh? Remember what he said? Africans are gullible and easy to ‘sway’! Never forget that! After all the racism boldfaced abuses etc. The UNC just got 18 seats of support from their fellow indians. Actions speak louder than words.
An insidious agenda exists within the hindu and indian community as is evident in the unc to silence the victims of indian racism (dark skinned africans) by accusing them of actually being racist(for rejecting indian racism).. this is actually related to an ancient hindu caste custom of berating low caste and untouchables for not accepting their inferior status…it is slimy psychological warfare, designed to beat you into submission. Try to imagine the nazis accusing the jews of being racist…then imagine jews then accepting this and willingly going to concentration camps…it is absurd…but DEVILISHLY clever…but it has worked for decades on the afro-saxon political party that africans support (PNM) and it has seeped into the minds of many africans that to notice or fight against racism from indians is in fact racist…so many indians instinctively believe this technique will always work on all africans and are genuinely hurt and appalled when it doesn’t work…how dare africans not bow down and lick in between our toes how and when we say so…buttt, notice that in the past five years and three months when africans cried out in pain over the racist abuse, not even a flinch or a missed beat…the indian community supported that in strategic silence and spinning…but the election results proved our suspicions…they got 18 seats after so many indefensible unprecedented abuses indians came out in droves…hindus, presbyterians (culturally hindus) and indian muslims to support the unc’s nazi reign in office.
I was not intending to use “token methodology”, just to point out that cracks will continue to appear in the structure of Indo racial attitudes that you seem to see as so monolithic and unbreakable.
Mixed people are now about 20% of TT. One day they will outnumber Afro- and Indo- Trinis, and the simple maths of our ethnic politics will no longer work.
You mention Nazis and Jews but it would not surprise me if you could accept a modern German as non-racist.
OK, I will accept your argument: I am Indo-Trini, therefore I am a racist, therefore any attempt to aspire to be otherwise is not only racist but devious, and that any social interaction I have with a non-Indo is the hypocrisy of a closet racist, therefore I am only suitable company for other Indo racists like myself, so all Indos must stick together because, as racists, they are unfit company for humans? By humans I mean non-Indos, as they are capable of non-racist behaviour.
Lol,..still spinning like a crocodile eh “bm”? So that the readers (not you, i know you are just trying to deceive) i do not recognize you as racist because you are indian…racism isn’t genetic, but based on YOUR BEHAVIOUR!! I read your deceitful posts and pathetic attempts to spin away racism as a motive for indians clearly racist behaviour and i realize that only a racist would be evil enough to want to hide racism and convince an abused people to tolerate the racism…see? Simple!
I recognize your attitudes and behaviour as an indicator of what you believe in…and as for germans they have proven themselves as at least speaking out against nazism and racism since the fall of hitler, they paid reparations to jews and put laws in place…but in T&T vast majority of indians deny and hide their fellow indians’ racism and still to this day try to LIE and convince africans that hindu ideology isn’t racist and that africans are the racist ones for talking about it…soo…as i actually have german friends and have noticed the different attitudes i would quicker trust a white german or any other european to not have deep seated hate and scorn for africans’ phenotype (hair, skin and facial features)…
imagine this india had a big spat with australia a few years ago over alleged mistreatments of indians there, however when the facts came out australians pointed out to certain known negative social/cultural traits as the motivating factors for the friction…clanishness, dishonesty…imagine white australians had to tell the international community that indians have no moral authority to talk about racism because they (indians) are in fact much more racist than europeans could ever be…then they cited examples of indian racism to african australians…imagine that…an indian cricketer called an african australian a monkey….lol check out the link i posted with the title “racist and blind to it, indians face the mirror” …it is an episode of cnn india discussing their racism and it was sooooo informative like a case study…watching indians try to be clever and hide their racism…
imagine a college professor in india saying to international media cnn..that in the case of the racist indian cricketer abusing the african australian by calling him a monkey, that the word ‘monkey’ has different meanings in different cultures and that LOL LOL…that it have a positive connotation in india and that “africans don’t have a cultural monopoly on the word ‘monkey’ ” LOL ALYUH HEAR LIE???…..DAT IS LIE!….see why there’s the worldwide stereotype of dishonesty with hindus/indians..??
It is a stereotype but…..yuh see why?? Guyanese indian Moses Seenarine even put forward a theory about why his fellow indians are so culturally steeped in dishonesty(like tuh lie)…quite interesting read…he says that they have been so accustomed to lying about their true caste origins and constantly LIE to maintain that lie over generations that it seeps into other topics….LOL basically once you get accustomed to lying about apples…sooner or later grapes, watermelons and the whole garden becomes fair game…however, i would factor in their religous beliefs…is dishonesty against any rules in hinduism…
hindus do not believe in hell…they don’t wake up at nights afraid of some terrible beast(christian devil) waiting to torture them for eternity when they die for not following christian rules…hindus believe in reincarnation not the true death and therefore they believe in karma and it possible to simply make up for bad karma…now note that hindus do not believe in the concept of forgiveness…remember nalini dial’s firm belief that marlene coudray’s daughter’s demise was as a result of her bad karma (betraying the COP to the UNC…political parties) so if we are to take Ms. Dial’s moral compass seriously which she said is as a result of her being a hindu…their idea of morality is miles in the other direction to rastafarianism, christianity and islam…which is what africans belong to.
So, in conclusion:
-the devious and dishonest arguments of Indo-Trinis must be recognized as such and cast aside.
-the proper application of anthropology, sociology and history allows us to prove scientifically that Indo-Trinis are, almost without exception, irredeemable racists.
-Other groups within Trinidad must therefore protect themselves against these racists
-The occupation of school places, houses and jobs by Indo-Trinis cannot be justified, nor indeed their carbon footprint.
What’s your solution?
Is it a “final solution”?
Hahah u know how you behaviour exposes a cultural religious mindset…imagine criticizing indian racism hurts your feelings… why are you so psychologically tied to racism? It’s like racism is your baby, your favourite child and it must be condemned! Or is it that your racist mindset is that to truly be an indian you must have racist beliefs so that you “Bm” believe criticising indian Racism is in fact criticizing the indian soul or being? That’s absurd but hey…if that’s what you believe i must take it into consideration.
Alyssa, reading your posts makes me start to think differently about my African co-workers. I feel that I am seeing myself through their eyes. They have no reason to trust me.
Well i can’t speak for your imaginary co-workers but yes…as a result of experience and education in indian culture/hinduism i do not trust indians on the topic of racism…i recognize it not as genetic or being able to look at an indian and know for sure BUTTTT…as an ingrained wildly rampant and supported attitude towards those with dark(er) skin, african facial features and hair texture….Yes…trust is EARNED!
So is it your racist belief that Africans should contrary to their experiences hand over their trust like a piece of chewing gum BECAUSE you are indian? Hmmmmmmm hard luck “BM” don’t believe in “caste rights” you can’t demand that i ‘hand my trust over’
i know it hurts your boat brahmin ego but….tough!
I’m not denying Indian racism but how can I have a platform to speak out against it if I’m labeled as one myself?
Under what circumstances could an African see an Indian as an exception to the rule, as a decent person in spite of being Indian?
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